Theory question about neutrals in circuits

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    Circuits Theory
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around theoretical scenarios involving neutral connections in electrical circuits, specifically in a 2-phase house system. Participants explore the implications of open neutrals, potential voltage readings, and the behavior of loads under various conditions without seeking a definitive solution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where an open neutral affects the voltage across different outlets, questioning how loads remain operational under these conditions.
  • Another suggests that the connection between neutrals N1 and N2 could allow for unexpected voltage readings, proposing that a high impedance voltmeter may yield unreliable results.
  • Several participants emphasize the importance of examining assumptions when faced with paradoxical situations in circuit behavior.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of connecting multiple neutrals and the potential for higher voltages to appear in certain configurations.
  • Discussion includes the role of ground connections and how they may influence circuit behavior, particularly in the absence of a neutral.
  • Participants explore the possibility of measuring voltage across loads and how the presence or absence of loads affects readings, including the impact of capacitive coupling.
  • One participant suggests that disconnecting various loads could help clarify the situation, advocating for careful documentation of measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of neutrals and voltage readings in the described scenarios. There is no consensus on the implications of the various configurations or the reliability of measurements under the conditions discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the connections between neutrals, the behavior of loads under different configurations, and the reliability of voltage measurements with high impedance devices. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

  • #31
ffp said:
@anorlunda I have provided al the information about my country electrical system: voltage, transformer secondary connection (Y with grounded neutral). If you or anyone need more information about it, I can provide.
There is no need to bring any country details, if there is something that is needed to know I can provide that information so we can work to understand the theory behind the issue.
In the US, the NEC (National Electrical Code) is the law. Can you please provide a link to the National Electrical Code laws in your country? Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code
 
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  • #32
berkeman said:
In the US, the NEC (National Electrical Code) is the law. Can you please provide a link to the National Electrical Code laws in your country? Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code

Hm, I live in Brasil. We don't have a single document with all the laws and norms of electric system. We have a federal company called Aneel, that regulates almost everything regarding electric systems. If you tell me what exactly you want to know I can search and post what you need to know.

However I feel that your question lies in a worry that I might be doing something illegal why else would you want to know laws instead of characteristics of the sytem? Is that it?
 
  • #33
ffp said:
Hm, I live in Brasil. We don't have a single document with all the laws and norms of electric system. We have a federal company called Aneel, that regulates almost everything regarding electric systems. If you tell me what exactly you want to know I can search and post what you need to know.

However I feel that your question lies in a worry that I might be doing something illegal why else would you want to know laws instead of characteristics of the sytem? Is that it?
In the US, depending on the county, we need to file a permit application with the local building department when we want to make changes to the electrical system in houses or businesses. This is for a good reason -- it is to be sure that changes to the electrical distribution panels or other major upgrades are safe, and comply with NEC standards.

I once contracted with a company to install an all-house fan in my home, and they tried to attach that high-power device to an existing circuit and breaker. When I saw that, I pointed out that the NEC required that they pull a local permit and install a new breaker for that circuit, and they finally complied.

It is similar to the local US building code requirement that you pull a permit and have inspections when you modify load bearing walls. When you make additions to the electrical distribution in a home or modify load bearing walls, you may endanger other people's lives if you do it even a little wrong.

I'm not sure that trying to justify this discussion based on your claim that you are in a 3rd world country that does not require safety standards and inspections and permits is valid. Thread closed again. Lordy.
 
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