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Revisiting topic: Using 230V 50Hz Euro Appliances in the US

  1. Nov 22, 2015 #1
    << The Mentors and experienced PF users are keeping an eye on this thread for NEC and UL compliance. Please use the Report link in any post that looks problematic >>

    I am moving the US from Norway, Europe. I want to build a "go green" house, but keep some luxuries. I have a lot of very expensive Hi-end Audio equipment. And a lot of workshop tools. The tools are replaceable, but my Hi-fi is not. It is build in Norway, and it's irreplaceable.

    I am thinking of Solar panels and Tesla Batteries. As I understand, one can choose if it runs 110V or 230V.?

    I have read a previous similar thread in here. The issue of having 230-240V outlet in-house was addressed. By running a double (2 poled) circuit breaker, and new wiring with a Euro outlet, one will achieve 240V for appliances in the US. But at the frequency of 60Hz.

    My issue would be Not wanting to have to run a frequency converter, because of the noise and humming it generates. (as audio fidelity is key here)

    Some of my equipment can be reconfigured to run 110V @ 60Hz. But I have 5 power amps that Only run 230V. But it does state 230V 50/60Hz. So I'm assuming I can run the hole system at 230-240V in the US at 60Hz, as long as all my equipment states it, right?

    So I think my question is, Can I implement Solar and Tesla tech into the equation of achieving 230V in house, and would I be able to give back to the grid? or would I need two Tesla battery setups. One for in-house use, and one to feed the grid and the rest of the house?

    I am an electrician in Norway. So I am competent to rewire parts of the house.
    We do not have the same system In Norway as in the rest of Europe. But our 220-230V appliances are the same. (400V 3 phase appliances need rewiring for engine speed)

    As most of Europe has a TN400 system, where the inlet is 400V over 3 phases and N (neutral) separate + Ground. Each phase generating 230V with 3 combinations to N.

    In Norway most house inlets are IT230 system, where one has 3 phases, each pair ganerating 230V, and ground is separate to the system, running a Ground wire to the outside. (No N)

    Both systems deliver a +/- 15% 230V 50Hz.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2015
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 22, 2015 #2

    anorlunda

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    That's what you need. Designing a dual 50/60 Hz system would be too much trouble to justify for such a small system.

    But depending on how many kWh you need for your audio system, a simple deep-discharge lead-acid battery costing $120 may be enough. A $4000 Tesla battery just for an audio system sounds like overkill.
     
  4. Nov 24, 2015 #3
    Thank you for replying! I think I was a little tired and disoriented when writing my post...
    I seem to mix the question of Solar / Battery integration in with the Standard US outlet of 240V.

    It's actually two separate unknowns for my part.

    So, just so revisit Previous statements. If I take the two leads from a 2 poled Circuit breaker, Without Using N (neutral) I will achieve 240V@60Hz ??
    So either lead to N would produce 110V, but without using N, the pair of leads would produce 220-240V ?

    I understand that 3 phase in the US is 240, but this is audio related equipment and needs 240V without using 3 phases. I'm just trying to get the picture here.

    Consumption of power for the Audio system, It's approx
    4000vA at the power supplies
    at 230Volt, that would be a consumption of about 17,5 amp
    On a 10 amp system, the whole house flickers when the system reloads the capacitors.
    On a 16 amp system, it's just about sufficient, as one never runs max load for any long periode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  5. Nov 24, 2015 #4

    anorlunda

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    You are asking about things only a licensed electrician can do legally. You're risking your life and your family's lives. Please don't do it.
     
  6. Nov 24, 2015 #5

    berkeman

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    But he does say he is an electrician in Norway.

    @englevakten -- Can you get a copy of the US National Electric Code (NEC) and see if that answers your questions?
     
  7. Nov 24, 2015 #6

    anorlunda

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    Sorry, I missed that. Anyhow, any answers posted are available to non-electricians as well.
     
  8. Nov 24, 2015 #7

    Nugatory

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    Yes. In a typical house you will find both 110 and 220 circuits (the latter for electric clothes dryers, stoves, ovens, water heaters). Receptacles and plugs are designed so that it mechanically impossible to connect an appliance designed for 110V operation into a 220v outlet, and vice versa.

    Circuit breaker panel boxes are designed so that adjacent slots draw from opposite 110V legs, which serves two purposes: first, as the breaker slots are filled in order, roughly half the circuits end up on each leg; and second, a 240 volt circuit is taken from two adjacent circuit breakers with their handles tied together.

    Three-phase is pretty much unheard of in residential installations.

    A reasonable-sized residential service will deliver better than a hundred amps at 240 volts, so the power levels you're talking about are not unrealistic. (I have multiple dedicated 240V 20 amp circuits in my basement shop for various big power tools, and a dedicated 40 amp 240V circuit for the arc welder). You will need a dedicated circuit if you're talking 17.5 amps at 240V, and there will be local rules about permits and inspections.
     
  9. Nov 24, 2015 #8

    Nugatory

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    That will very much depend on where in the US you end up. Regulations and the willingness of the local power company to take power back onto the grid vary greatly from one locale to another.

    For that matter, the local permitting authorities are much more willing to work with qualified homeowners in some areas than others.
     
  10. Nov 25, 2015 #9
    Pretty Standard in the US to have the house wired split phase 120/240VAC - 60 Hz of course, so as long as the devices are OK with 60Hz - probably OK.

    During construction, design to have a 240 Receptacle located where you will want the audio equipment - this is common for large loads like an electric clothes dryer, or the Electric Oven ( also today for putting a vehicle charger in the garage). You may hit a snag with the NEC (National Electrical Code) - that there MAY be a restriction as to where these can be located. For example - by design in a kitchen it will be behind the Oven - and not accessible, you may not be allowed to put a 240V Recepticle in a living room. -- Just something to check, my code book is in the basement and about 15 years old!
     
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