Thermodynamic Cycles: Understanding Energy Balance and Work-Energy Relations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around thermodynamic cycles, specifically focusing on energy balance and work-energy relations. Participants are exploring concepts related to the first law of thermodynamics and the definitions of internal energy, kinetic energy, and potential energy within the context of cyclic processes.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the implications of energy balance in a cyclic process, questioning what other quantities may sum to zero besides internal energy. They seek hints to progress in their problem-solving.
  • Participants discuss the application of the first law of thermodynamics and express confusion regarding the meaning of terms like \Delta E and how they relate to work and energy changes in the system.
  • Some participants question the distinction between potential energy, kinetic energy, and internal energy, particularly in relation to work done by the system.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing hints and clarifications regarding the first law of thermodynamics and energy definitions. There is an exploration of different interpretations of energy changes and their implications for the problem at hand.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of energy definitions and their applications in thermodynamic cycles, indicating a need for further clarification on specific terms and concepts related to energy balance.

Saladsamurai
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Homework Statement



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I have filled in a couple of spots as seen below, but I am a little confused as to how to proceed. If I get a good hint on one, I am sure the rest will follow. I think I am overlooking something obvious here.

I know that in a cyclic process, all E (internal) will sum to zero. Does anything else sum to zero?

Homework Equations

Energy Balance equations



The Attempt at a Solution



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Q

You have to apply the first law:

[tex]\Delta Q = \Delta U + W[/tex] where W is the work done BY the system.

I am not sure what [itex]\Delta E[/itex] in the tables refers to. Is it the total change in mechanical energy of the system (eg. a piston)?

For 1-2 and 2-3, [itex]W = \Delta Q - \Delta U[/itex] = ?
For 3-4, [itex]\Delta Q = \Delta U + W[/itex] = ?

For 4-1, since we know that this is a cycle, what is the sum of all the [itex]\Delta U[/itex]s from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 and 4-1? That will tell you what [itex]\Delta U[/itex] from 4-1 is.

AM
 
It's the total change in energy (kE+Pe+U). Thanks for the hint! I completely overlooked that! The First law says that the change in

internal Energy=Q-W

So that would mean that my work for 1-2 was found incorrectly eh?
 
Last edited:
Saladsamurai said:
It's the total change in energy (kE+Pe+U). Thanks for the hint! I completely overlooked that! The First law says that the change in

internal Energy=Q-W

So that would mean that my work for 1-2 was found incorrectly eh?
Right. I am still not sure what is meant by PE and KE and how it differs from [itex]\Delta U[/itex] and W. If the system is using a piston, say, to lift a weight, the gain in PE is the increase in gravitational potential energy. But this is also a measure of the work done by the system.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
Right. I am still not sure what is meant by PE and KE and how it differs from [itex]\Delta U[/itex] and W. If the system is using a piston, say, to lift a weight, the gain in PE is the increase in gravitational potential energy. But this is also a measure of the work done by the system.

AM

The internal energy (U) is the energy associated with the molecular structure of a system and the degree of molecular activity. The kinetic energy (KE) exists as a result of the system’s motion relative to an external reference frame. The energy that a system possesses as a result of its elevation in a gravitational field relative to the external reference frame is the potential energy (PE). The sum of these is the total energy (E) of the system.

Most closed systems remain stationary during a process, thus, experience no change in their kinetic and potential energies. In this case the change in the stored energy is identical to the change in internal energy for stationary systems.

Heat (Q) and work (W) differ in the fact that they are transport mechanisms for energy across a system boundary (i.e. between the system and its surroundings). Systems possesses energy, but not heat or work.

CS
 

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