[thermodynamics] Is it possible problem.

In summary, the conversation discusses a thermodynamics problem involving air in a piston-cylinder device with specific initial and final conditions. The heat source and heat input are given, and the specific work output and possibility of the process are to be determined. The conversation also includes a link to an illustration and a discussion about the total entropy change and temperature increase. A proposed solution is provided, but there is uncertainty about the professor's expectations and a missing factor in the calculation.
  • #1
constfang
10
0
[thermodynamics] "Is it possible" problem.

Air in a piston-cylinder device, heat input
Initially: T1 = 21Celsius, P1 = 2 atm
Finally: T2 = 38Celsius, P2 = 2 atm = P1 (isobaric)
Heat source: TH = 260Celsius, qH = 23 kJ/kg (heat input)
Find:
a) specific work output, w =?
b) whether the process is possible?

Illustration figure can be found here:
hxxp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4540/tempca1.jpg

The process have a positive total entropy change but the professor said it is impossible, positive total entropy change is true but still something missing, anyone know what is it?
 
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  • #2
Have you calculated the temperature increase when 23 kJ is added to one kilogram of air?
 
  • #3
Mapes said:
Have you calculated the temperature increase when 23 kJ is added to one kilogram of air?

Genius guy! we actually only need a qH of 17.073kJ/kg to raise the temperture of air to 38Celsius, but I'm not sure if it's the answer that the professor wanted, because Cp was not given, if Cp by some reason becomes large then it's still possible.
 
  • #4
Here's a little detail about my solution:
from 1st law:
delta(u) = q - w

q = 23kJ/kg
delta(u) = u2 - u1 = 221.25 - 210.40 = 10.85 kJ/kg (u obtained from table)
=> w = 23kJ - 10.85 kJ/kg = 12.15kJ/kg

Entropy change of the system: (treated as ideal gas):
delta(s)system = Cp*ln(T2/T1) = 1.005*ln(311K/294K)=0.00565kJ/kgK

Entropy change of surrounding:
delta(s)surround = q/T = 23/533K = 0.04315kJ/kgK

delta(s)total = delta(s)surround - delta(s)system = 0.04315kJ/kgK - 0.00565kJ/kgK = 0.0375kJ/kgK (>0)

Total Entropy change is larger than zero, the process seems to be possible...
what's missing ?
 

What is thermodynamics?

Thermodynamics is the branch of physics that deals with the relationships between heat, work, temperature, and energy.

What is the first law of thermodynamics?

The first law of thermodynamics, also known as the law of conservation of energy, states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or converted from one form to another.

What is the second law of thermodynamics?

The second law of thermodynamics states that in any energy transfer or conversion, some energy will be lost as heat, resulting in a decrease in the overall usable energy within a closed system.

What is the difference between an open and closed system in thermodynamics?

An open system is one that can exchange both matter and energy with its surroundings, while a closed system can only exchange energy with its surroundings. In thermodynamics, closed systems are often used for analysis and calculations.

Can the laws of thermodynamics be violated?

The laws of thermodynamics are fundamental principles that have been extensively tested and observed to hold true in all physical systems. While there may be rare exceptions or violations in specific cases, the laws of thermodynamics are considered to be universally applicable.

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