Thermodynamics: polytropic processes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of work done during a polytropic process in a piston-cylinder device, specifically when a gas expands from an initial state to a final volume. Participants explore the application of the polytropic relationship \(PV^n = C\) and the integration method for work calculation.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • The initial attempt at calculating work involved using the relationship \(PV^n = C\) and integrating \(W = \int_{.03}^{.2} {150V^{-1.3}}dV\), which led to an incorrect result.
  • One participant points out that the constant \(C\) should not be assumed to be 150, suggesting a need to recalculate it based on the initial state of the gas.
  • Another participant acknowledges confusion regarding the use of the pressure value in the work calculation, indicating a misunderstanding of the integration process.
  • A later reply confirms that calculating \(C\) from the initial state is possible and necessary for the correct application of the formula.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial calculation method, as there is a recognition of errors in the approach but no agreement on the implications of those errors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method for calculating work in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem does not provide the constant \(C\), which complicates the calculation. There is also an indication that assumptions about pressure values may lead to incorrect results.

silentwf
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Homework Statement


"During some actual expansion and compression processes in piston-cylinder devices, the gases have been observed to satisfy the relationship [tex]PV^n=c[/tex] where n and C are constants. Calculate the work done when a gas expands from 150kPa and .03 m^3 to a final volume of .2m^3 for the case of n = 1.3


Homework Equations


[tex]W = \int_{1}^{2} {P}dV[/tex]


The Attempt at a Solution


[tex]PV^n=C \Rightarrow P=CV^{-n} \Rightarrow<br /> W = \int_{.03}^{.2} {150V^{-1.3}}dV = 621 kJ[/tex]
Which...is wrong :(

The solution the book offers is:
[tex]P_{2} = P_{1}\frac{V_{1}}{V_{2}}^n = (150)\frac{.03}{.2}^{1.3} = 12.74 kPa<br /> \Rightarrow W = \int_{1}^{2} {P}dv = \frac{P_{2}V_{2} - P_{1}V_{1}}{1-n}<br /> =\frac{(12.74 \cdot .2 - 150 \cdot .03)}{1-1.3} = 6.51 kJ[/tex]

Could someone explain why the way i did it is "unacceptable"?
 
Last edited:
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Because [itex]C\neq150[/itex]; check your integrand.
 
Oh...woops
I put in 150 because i was still thinking that [tex]W = P\Delta V[/tex] and I put in 150
then what would i put in? the question does not supply C though
 
You can calculate C from initial state.

--
methods
 
oh lol!
ok, i got the answer, thanks :)
 

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