Thermodynamics, solving for Q1. I've almost got it

In summary, the conversation discusses how to solve for Q1' and Q1 in a reversible engine problem, taking into account both the energy balance and entropy balance equations. After some initial attempts, it is determined that the correct equations to use are Q1 = W(T1/T2 - T1) and Q1' = (T2/T1)Q1.
  • #1
atomicpedals
209
7

Homework Statement



A reversible engine takes in 2000J from a reservoir at 400K; it gives up Q1' J to a reservoir at 300K and Q1 J to a reservoir at 200K, doing 750J of work/cycle. Find Q1' and Q1.

Homework Equations



So at first glance the relevant equation would seem to be the work equation W=Q2-Q1, however this wouldn't account for the difference in the two reservoir temperatures. So my next thought was to use the proportions Q1/Q2 = T1/T2.

The Attempt at a Solution



If I go with my gut and use the proportion what I get is:
Q1/Q2 = T1/T2
Q1/2000 = 300/400
Q1=1500J

and

Q1/2000 = 200/400
Q1 = 1000J

Now, I can tell almost by inspection that these results are way off (and indeed the book values give are 750J and 500J). If I attempt using the basic W = Q2-Q1, I get W = 1250, but again this doesn't account for temperature (but is conveniently the sum of the given answers).

What am I doing wrong? Any nudge in the right direction would be appreciated.
 
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  • #2
In general the approach to these problems is to apply the energy balance (1st law) and entropy balance (2nd law) together.

So from the energy balance: [itex]\Delta E_{engine} = 0 = Q1 - Q1' - W \Rightarrow Q1 - Q1' = W[/itex]

From the entropy balance: [itex]\Delta S_{engine} = 0 = Q1/T1 - Q1'/T1' \Rightarrow Q1/T1 = Q1'/T1'[/itex]

So you are almost there! You need to use both equations to take the temperatures into account (i.e., solve the entropy balance for one of the Q's and plug it into energy balance).
 
  • #3
Ok, then does the following make sense (ignoring the fact that I need to learn latex way better):

Q1 = WT1/T2-T1

Q1' = (T2/T1)Q1
 
  • #4
No, my second post doesn't work out. Always good to know you're close though!
 
  • #5
Ok, pulling my head out of nonsense and actually doing basic maths I get the following:

W = (Q1'/T1')T - Q1'
 
  • #6
Got it! Thanks!
 
  • #7
Yay! :smile:
 

1. What is thermodynamics?

Thermodynamics is the branch of physics that deals with the relationships and conversions between heat and other forms of energy.

2. How do you solve for Q1 in thermodynamics?

To solve for Q1, you need to use the first law of thermodynamics, which states that the change in internal energy of a system is equal to the heat added to the system minus the work done by the system. Q1 represents the heat added to the system.

3. What is the first law of thermodynamics?

The first law of thermodynamics, also known as the law of conservation of energy, states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or converted from one form to another.

4. What are some common applications of thermodynamics?

Thermodynamics has many practical applications, including in power generation, refrigeration and air conditioning, combustion engines, and chemical processes.

5. What are the three laws of thermodynamics?

The three laws of thermodynamics are: 1) the law of conservation of energy, 2) the law of entropy, which states that the total entropy of a closed system will never decrease over time, and 3) the law of absolute zero, which states that as temperature approaches absolute zero, the entropy of a pure crystalline substance approaches zero.

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