Things I've learned as a recent grad

[kinkmode]

"This was the fourth interview with this company..." Sounds like one company to me. Note, I am aware that he is interviewing with multiple companies.

I know people who have had 3 or 4 onsite interviews on 3 or 4 different dates, all for the same job. Only to not get a job offer. Frankly, I don't even really count the initial HR phone call as an interview; I know they don't.

But it's not really important. I was just making a comment that I find many companies interviewing procedures to be not overly effective. No need to side track the thread any more.

 

[Jamin2112]

I know people who have had 3 or 4 onsite interviews on 3 or 4 different dates, all for the same job. Only to not get a job offer. Frankly, I don't even really count the initial HR phone call as an interview; I know they don't.

Sometimes the initial phone call is just HR trying to look busy that day. If HR needs to meet some quota of daily phone calls, they'll call up people they aren't realistically considering for the position.

Moreover, lots of listings you see on Indeed and other job boards are fake listings. With the internet, companies can post jobs cost-free, where in the old days they would've had to buy space in the local newspaper. So a lot of companies that are just trying to test the waters will post a fake job to see what types of applicants they attract in case they actually need to fill such a role in the near future. Or a position they're planning to fill internally will be posted just to make outsiders have confidence that the company is expanding. Or a company planning to fill a position with HB1 visa holders will post it so they can prove to the Labor Department that they tried to find applicants domestically.

 

[Aero51]

Sometimes the initial phone call is just HR trying to look busy that day. If HR needs to meet some quota of daily phone calls, they'll call up people they aren't realistically considering for the position.

Moreover, lots of listings you see on Indeed and other job boards are fake listings. With the internet, companies can post jobs cost-free, where in the old days they would've had to buy space in the local newspaper. So a lot of companies that are just trying to test the waters will post a fake job to see what types of applicants they attract in case they actually need to fill such a role in the near future. Or a position they're planning to fill internally will be posted just to make outsiders have confidence that the company is expanding. Or a company planning to fill a position with HB1 visa holders will post it so they can prove to the Labor Department that they tried to find applicants domestically.

This a truly remarkable fact. The companies themselves lie to their candidate pool while many of you preach about the integrity of the applicant. Now tell me, is it ok for a company to bait its candidates? If you want to talk about integrity, talk about company policy towards candidates. Absolutely contemptible that virtually all of you overlooked this fact.

Here is a great question: what happens to companies that don't act with integrity, that don't care about the employee...? Nothing. There is nobody to keep them in check, so why should a candidate play the hippocrite to their disadvantage?

And 4 interviews? What are you applying to work in a secret lab at Mount Cheyenne? They are taking advantage of you.

 

[D H]

And 4 interviews? What are you applying to work in a secret lab at Mount Cheyenne? They are taking advantage of you.

Nonsense.

Here's an easy way to count four interviews with one company.

1. You go to a trade show or job fair and go to XYZ Company's booth. You talk about job opportunities, what they do, what you do, why you would make a good candidate. If you don't go to that booth without your interview hat on you lose.
2. That initial interview went well. The company asked you to submit your resume through its on-line application process. You do that, and you get a phone interview as a result. If you don't do that phone interview without your interview hat on you lose.
3. The phone interview also went well. The company asks you to come in for a day-long formal interview. They might even pony up some cash for your expenses for this boondoggle. If you don't do this formal interview without your interview hat on you lose.
4. The formal interview also went well. All that's left is talkin' turkey. Here's the trick: This too is an interview. All the hard work in getting this far may be for nought if you don't look at it as such. You need your interview hat on for this, too, because this is also an interview.

That's four interviews, easy, for a typical technical job. Your job working in a secret lab at Cheyenne Mountain? Four is a bare start. There's the lie detector test, interviews about your family and friends, and then a lot of waiting so that people can go interview your family and friends to find the people they really want to talk to.

 

[Choppy]

Moreover, lots of listings you see on Indeed and other job boards are fake listings. With the internet, companies can post jobs cost-free, where in the old days they would've had to buy space in the local newspaper. So a lot of companies that are just trying to test the waters will post a fake job to see what types of applicants they attract in case they actually need to fill such a role in the near future. Or a position they're planning to fill internally will be posted just to make outsiders have confidence that the company is expanding. Or a company planning to fill a position with HB1 visa holders will post it so they can prove to the Labor Department that they tried to find applicants domestically.

It's also important to remember what's happened by the time a job is posted on a job board, particularly in a competative market for job-seekers:

1. Union rules and internal policies often dictate that comanies seek to hire from within. When a job becomes available the comany will look to people that already work there to fill the position - either people who can be promoted, or those looking for a lateral shift. Only after such options are exhausted will they look outside the company.

2. If the job is any good, there is likely a pool of candidates who already know about it and who have been waiting for it to become available. They have already spoken with the hiring manager, and already made sure this person has their resumes.

3. People in position to hire someone (and who care about who they are hiring) will naturally look to their own networks to fill a position. Also in this category you could most certainly include nepotism... the hiring of friends and relations... not that such practices are always legal/fair, but I think that's still a factor to account for.

4. Head hunters. For those high-paying jobs, rather than simply advertising on a job board, companies will hire people specifically to find them the candidates they are looking for.

Now, after all of that is exhausted, THEN, the company will look to people who are applying based on the advertisements. Generally speaking, even when the job is all-but offered to a candidate found through any of the above factors, jobs are still advertised. This is because they have to ensure a legal/fair competition.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

The companies themselves lie to their candidate pool while many of you preach about the integrity of the applicant. Now tell me, is it ok for a company to bait its candidates? If you want to talk about integrity, talk about company policy towards candidates. Absolutely contemptible that virtually all of you overlooked this fact.

Like the people that work for them, not all companies are as ethical or decent as we'd like. I have had the misfortune of working with such companies in the past, and I didn't stick around.

Nevertheless, you feel obligated to tar them all with that same brush. The alternative, since you seem to think you know better than the rest of us, is to start a business of your own. Then you can set your own standards.

 

[Locrian]

Well I can understand that different people would have differing opinions about how many interviews is optimal. When you're actually looking for work, though, I'd advise the following:

• There can be lots of interviews, and companies that give lots of interviews may well make you an offer.
• Be ready for any question at any time, even if you think you've moved to a different part of the process.
• Be appreciative of the time people are taking from their day to speak with you.

For on-site interviews, I would add an additional piece of advice:

As always, be ready to explain why you would like to work in the position you're interviewing for. But don't rule out the possibility that there are other open positions. If it's a large organization and they might be considering you for more than just the one you applied for. Be honest about where your interest lies, but keep an open mind throughout the process. If you find yourself interviewing with someone who seems only marginally related to the position you thought you were there for, there may be other options available to you.

 

[atyy]

Like the people that work for them, not all companies are as ethical or decent as we'd like. I have had the misfortune of working with such companies in the past, and I didn't stick around.

Nevertheless, you feel obligated to tar them all with that same brush. The alternative, since you seem to think you know better than the rest of us, is to start a business of your own. Then you can set your own standards.

The bad thing is can you get a job if you don't work for these unethical companies? Unfortunately, in some economies, the answer appears to be "no". Do you have advice on what to do, since you did work for some of these companies?

 

[jesse73]

Nevertheless, you feel obligated to tar them all with that same brush. The alternative, since you seem to think you know better than the rest of us, is to start a business of your own. Then you can set your own standards.

However those unethical things like putting a job out there while planning to hire h1b's are competitive advantages in the sense that they will get talent for cheaper by flying someone in from abroad who will not ask for the money someone from here will. This will keep down costs and this will reflect on their lower operating costs higher profit which will then be rewarded in the form of higher stock price if the company is publicly traded.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

The bad thing is can you get a job if you don't work for these unethical companies? Unfortunately, in some economies, the answer appears to be "no". Do you have advice on what to do, since you did work for some of these companies?

I won't name names of companies because while the name of the company still exists, the ownership has changed at least once and probably more since the days when I worked there.

Learning who meets your sense of ethics and who doesn't is difficult. Often that situation exists even within the same division of the same company. I've seen unethical things happen and employees leave following an attempt to abuse their professional certification. I've seen people get taken off to Federal Prison for theft. Learn to keep your ears to the ground and find out who is nice to work with and who isn't. Thankfully, I've had the good fortune of working with some very capable, honest, and fun people for most of my career.

But some are incompetent. Some are unethical, and some are just plain difficult to be with. It is wise in those cases to always keep your ears to the ground and get ready to apply for new positions as they open up. And yes, I have seen people walk away without any job prospects to walk in to.

Remember, your mental health is important too. If your work makes you crazy enough to want to treat yourself poorly, it's time to leave. What good is the money if you hate yourself for being there?

Poor economy or not, be broad minded about what you like to do. You may find yourself doing things you never thought you'd do --and enjoying it!

Some aim at the prestige and that's it. Frankly, I'd rather talk to a happy guy who picks up my trash every week then to talk to a rich buffoon with an inflated sense of self worth. You are not your job. You are you. If you can't find work that pays the bills, pick up, and go live somewhere where you can pay your bills and make enough money to support yourself. And if your education serves you well, Great. But it doesn't have to. Sometimes it's just the experience of getting that education that matters. It's the experience of learning to think for yourself.

Good Luck!

 

[Locrian]

And 4 interviews? What are you applying to work in a secret lab at Mount Cheyenne? They are taking advantage of you.

Aero51's post above is referring to my job interviews with one company. I strongly disagreed with Aero51's sentiment at the time, but until the company made me an offer, I didn't have any evidence Aero51 was wrong. I promised myself I'd come back later and provide the results for readers to judge.

Not too long after Aero51's post I called this company up. . . and asked them for a fifth interview. Of the five interviews, one was with HR, and one was an on-site interview. I talked to around a dozen different people in total, from six different areas of the company.

The company later made me an offer and I accepted. The job has been working out very well and I feel that both the company and I are glad we put as much time and effort into ensuring this was a good match as we did.

We typically see interviews as a time the employer is judging us, but it's also a time we're judging them.

 

[lisab]

Aero51's post above is referring to my job interviews with one company. I strongly disagreed with Aero51's sentiment at the time, but until the company made me an offer, I didn't have any evidence Aero51 was wrong. I promised myself I'd come back later and provide the results for readers to judge.

Not too long after Aero51's post I called this company up. . . and asked them for a fifth interview. Of the five interviews, one was with HR, and one was an on-site interview. I talked to around a dozen different people in total, from six different areas of the company.

The company later made me an offer and I accepted. The job has been working out very well and I feel that both the company and I are glad we put as much time and effort into ensuring this was a good match as we did.

We typically see interviews as a time the employer is judging us, but it's also a time we're judging them.

Very good point. IMO when an applicant goes into an interview knowing this, it gives an extra boost of confidence. But, unfortunately, when an applicant is feeling desperate (which is often the case), it's hard to remember the interview is going both ways.