Think about SR as different observers using different coordinate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of Special Relativity (SR) as a framework where different observers utilize distinct coordinate systems based on their relative speeds. Participants explore how this perspective affects measurements of space, time, and mass, and whether it accurately captures the essence of SR.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that SR can be understood as different observers using varying coordinate systems that depend on their speeds, leading to differing measurements of physical quantities.
  • Others argue that while this perspective is valid, it must be complemented by the Lorentz transformations and the invariance of the Lorentz interval to fully capture the principles of SR.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the coordinate systems must be structured to ensure the constancy of the speed of light for all observers.
  • Another participant notes that not only the speed of light but also other invariant quantities, such as the spacetime interval and the energy-momentum four-vector, remain unchanged across inertial reference frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of using different coordinate systems to understand SR, but there is no consensus on whether this perspective alone sufficiently captures the theory's complexities. Multiple competing views remain regarding the necessity of additional concepts like Lorentz transformations and invariance.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the need for clarity on how differing coordinate systems reflect the same underlying reality and the potential for confusion regarding the mathematical representations involved.

daniel_i_l
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Is it correct to think about SR as different observers using different coordinate systems depending on their speeds? This would meen that their measurements would differ since space, time, mass,etc.. measurements depend on the system used. I find it very easy to understand SR when I think about it this way. Is it correct?
 
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You can definitely think about it that way, just keep in mind that the coordinate systems being used are a little funny, i.e. the invarient in Minkowsky space is [tex]\sqrt{t^2-x^2-y^2-z^2}[/tex] or [tex]\sqrt{-t^2+x^2+y^2+z^2}[/tex], depending on whether the interval is timelike or spacelike, instead of [tex]\sqrt{t^2+x^2+y^2+z^2}[/tex], as one might expect from Cartesian space.

You can even represent the Lorentz transformation between refrence frames as a matrix, and then demonstrate that the matrix preserves lengths and angles (again, in the sense of Minkowsky coordinates) so that you can view it as being simply a rotation between different coordinate systems.
 
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daniel_i_l said:
Is it correct to think about SR as different observers using different coordinate systems depending on their speeds? This would meen that their measurements would differ since space, time, mass,etc.. measurements depend on the system used. I find it very easy to understand SR when I think about it this way. Is it correct?

It is correct as far as it goes, but unless you go further and give the Lorentz transforms, or some equivalent statement such as the fact that the Lorentz interval is invariant for all observers, you have not uniquely identified SR.

You also have to note that the differing coordinate systems reflect the same underlying reality (covariance).
 
Thanks,
Well, obviously the coordunate system would have to rotate is such a way that the speed of light would be constant for all observers.
 
Not only the speed of light, but also other invariant quantities. For example, the spacetime interval between two events [itex]\Delta s = \sqrt{(c \Delta t)^2 - (\Delta x)^2 - (\Delta y)^2 - (\Delta z)^2}[/itex] is the same in any inertial reference frame. Also the quantity [itex]m_0 c^2 = \sqrt{E^2 - (p_x c)^2 - (p_y c)^2 - (p_z c)^2}[/itex] is the same in any inertial reference frame, for any object.

More generally, the magnitude of any four-vector is the same in all inertial reference frames, just as the magnitude of any ordinary "three-vector" stays the same when you rotate your (3-dimensional) coordinate system. An examples of a four-vector is the energy-momentum four-vector [itex](p_0, p_1, p_2, p_3) = (E/c, p_x, p_y, p_z)[/itex]. Also, the "dot product" of two four-vectors, [itex]a_0 b_0 - a_1 b_1 - a_2 b_2 - a_3 b_3[/itex] is the same in any inertial reference frame.
 
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