Thinking about magnetic coercive field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the concept of magnetic coercive fields, particularly in the context of neodymium magnets. Participants explore the implications of coercive fields on magnetization and the magnetic fields present outside the magnet, as well as the calculations related to magnetic induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the meaning of coercive fields in magnetic objects, specifically using neodymium magnets as an example.
  • The participant questions the magnetic field present in the air or vacuum outside the magnet and how it relates to the coercive field.
  • Another participant notes that the coercive field value provided is related to the field offered for use, rather than the demagnetizing field, which is suggested to be larger.
  • This second participant mentions that achieving the induction needed to demagnetize such a magnet requires significant power and cannot be attained through magnetic cores.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the initial inquiry was not about a specific case but aimed at a general understanding of the concepts involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of coercive fields and the magnetic fields outside the magnet. There is no consensus on the specifics of the coercive field's implications or the calculations involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific values and conditions related to coercive fields and magnetic induction, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions and contexts of these terms.

SamBam77
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I am trying to better understand some concepts in magnetism and I hope that someone here can help clarify a few questions that I have.

I am trying to interpret the meaning of the specific coercive fields of magnetic objects. For the sake of discussion, let’s use neodymium (rare-earth) magnets as an example. These magnets have a very high coercive field. Again, for the sake of discussion let’s say the magnet has a coercive field of 12,000 Oe (~955 kA/m),
http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe...lator/ampere-per-meter-[A/m]-to-oersted-[Oe]/
This would mean that in order to remove magnetization (take it to the M = 0 line on the hysteresis curve) of the magnet one would need to apply this minimum magnetic field (H-field) strength.

Does it make sense to think about the field outside the magnet? What would the field in the air / vacuum be right outside the magnetic at this point?

If we know that,
H = (1/μ) * B
Where mu is the magnetic permeability of the material, we could find the B-field if we know the H-field (from the coercive field). Of course, this is not value inside the magnet, since there is a magnetization that needs to be accounted for. But in the vacuum surrounding the magnet, there should be a field that we can find.

In the above example, could we say that the magnetic induction field (B-field) need to zero the object’s magnetization would be,
B = μ_0 * H_c
B = (4pi E-7 N/A^2) * (955000 A/m) = about 1.2 Tesla
 
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Your conversion from A/m to T is about correct because Nb-Fe-B magnets have a permeability around 1. Other materials like AlNiCo have µr >> 1 .

Several fields are defined in permanent magnets. 955kA/m for an Nd-Fe-B is rather the field it offers for the using circuit, not the demagnetizing field which uses to be even bigger and translates to >2T.

This means that the induction needed to make or erase such a magnet can't be attained from a magnetic core and must be created without the help of permeability, by using a huge power for a short duration. The standard method is capacitor discharge, like 1m3 capacitors for 0.1dm3 magnets. In 10ms, it's loud and the cables must be hold firmly.

I suggest you to find material data sheets on manufacturers' websites for the material you want. They give magnetization curves which are rather clear.
 
In my example, I was not considering the field inside the magnetic (be it NdFeB, or whatever), but rather the air/vacuum immediately outside the magnet.

I should clarify that I am not really interested I specific case, but rather a more general understanding of what is going on. I just used NdFeB as an example because I thought using real numbers might clarify the question I was asking.
 
Can anyone else offer some insight?
 

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