Time and the relative speed of an Expanding Universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the existence of time and the expansion of the universe, particularly focusing on whether time depends on the universe expanding at an accelerated rate. Participants explore theoretical implications, cosmological conditions, and the nature of time from various perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the existence of time is difficult to define and may have a cosmological explanation linked to the macroscopic arrow of time, which is influenced by the low entropy conditions at the Big Bang.
  • Others argue that while accelerated expansion is not essential for the existence of time, the expansion of the universe is significant in understanding the flow of time.
  • A participant notes that time can exist without an arrow of time, highlighting that different cosmological models (radiation, matter, cosmological constant) affect how time is perceived.
  • One participant states that at the Big Bang, time began with the singularity, but expresses uncertainty about how this relates to the concept of acceleration in the universe.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of the edge of the universe representing the moment of creation of time, suggesting that this perspective may be incorrect.
  • A novice participant questions whether the current acceleration of the universe is necessary for observing change over time and speculates about the nature of expansion versus spin in the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the relationship between time and the universe's expansion, with no consensus reached on whether accelerated expansion is necessary for the existence of time. Disagreements exist regarding the interpretation of cosmological models and the implications of the Big Bang on the nature of time.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve complex concepts that may depend on specific definitions of time and cosmological conditions, which remain unresolved. The relationship between time and the universe's expansion is not definitively established, and various assumptions are present in the arguments.

markjuliansmi
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I would appreciate assistance in answering the following.

Does the existence of time depend on the universe expanding at an accelerated rate?
 
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'existence of time' is something difficult to define

Less fundamental thing, the 'appearance of flow of time for the observers ' is caused by the macroscopic arrow of time. The macroscopic arrow of time exists because of the boundary conditions at the Big Bang (low entropy). So yes, in some sense the TIME has cosmological explanation. Time is always pointing to the direction where entropy increases, so, it is always pointing away from the Big Bang -> BB is always in the 'past'

So the expansion is important. Accelerated expansion is not.
 
I think Dmitry67 is correct.I would also point out that you can have time without having an arrow of time -- not sure which notion of time markjuliansmi had in mind.

Re the original question, there is a sense in which the truth is nearly the opposite of what markjuliansmi conjectured. You can have a universe that's dominated by (1) radiation, (2) matter, or (3) the cosmological constant. In cases 1 and 2, you can observe the local conditions in the universe and infer something about "what time it is." In case 3, it turns out that you can't; a cosmology that's purely of this type has a kind of time-translation symmetry that 1 and 2 don't.
 
At the point of the Big Bang there was no time outside the singularity. The edge of the universe, from that instant on, represents the moment of creation of time. This is why you can't explain what is outside the universe. There will be stuff there, as soon as time reaches there.

I have no idea how this realtes to acceleration, though.
 
jmallett said:
The edge of the universe, from that instant on, represents the moment of creation of time. This is why you can't explain what is outside the universe. There will be stuff there, as soon as time reaches there.

This is incorrect. If you want to understand this kind of thing better, a good nonmathematical book is Gardner's Relativity Simply Explained.
 
Thanks everyone for replying. I suppose being rather a scientific novice I wondered, if to be in a position to observe change occurring between two points in time, as we do today, do we need to have the Universe accelerating at the current rather than expanding at a constant velocity or accelerating less than we are observing today.

I suppose I also wondered if what we are observing in regards the expansion of the Universe is more spin than actual expansion – a question most likely emanating from my incapacity to actualise in my mind the enormity of what surrounds us rather than on any actual scientific fact.

If we humans survive for another thousand years I wonder also if we will not require Babel Fish to communicate between the guilds of knowledge one would expect to develop - an absolute necessity for BBQs to save the sanity of both sides.

bcrowell thanks for your suggestion I will order the Gardner's Relativity Simply Explained.
 

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