Topic about physics axioms, theory, laws etc..

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of axioms in physics, the relationship between experimental evidence and theoretical constructs, and the validity of physical theories. Participants explore whether physics has foundational axioms similar to mathematics, how key principles like F=ma and the constancy of light were established, and the implications of scientific theories being open to revision based on new data.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether physics has axioms akin to those in mathematics, suggesting that physics relies on observations and experiments rather than unquestioned truths.
  • There is a discussion about how F=ma was discovered, with some asserting it was based on experimental evidence rather than purely mathematical derivation.
  • Participants inquire about the constancy of light in all reference frames, with a consensus that this was established through experiments.
  • Concerns are raised about the nature of theories, particularly whether a theory can be considered correct if it predicts experimental results but is deemed not physical.
  • Some argue that physics is inherently uncertain and always subject to revision, citing examples like the circulation theory of lift and string theory.
  • The distinction between axioms and postulates is debated, with participants noting that while axioms are seen as universally true, postulates may hold only in specific contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether physics has axioms similar to mathematics. There are multiple competing views regarding the nature of physical laws, the role of experiments in establishing theories, and the definitions of axioms and postulates.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of axioms and postulates, indicating that these terms may vary in meaning depending on context. The discussion reflects the complexity of establishing foundational principles in physics and the ongoing evolution of scientific understanding.

  • #91
jbriggs444 said:
Since the rest frame of Westminster Abbey is rotating, that leaves some remaining troubles with simultaneity.
No, that's not true. Simultaneous events that occur in the same place remain simultaneous with respect to all reference frames, regardless of whether they are inertial or not or whether they rotate or not.
 
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  • #92
Jaime Rudas said:
No, that's not true. Simultaneous events that occur in the same place remain simultaneous with respect to all reference frames, regardless of whether they are inertial or not or whether they rotate or not.
We are not talking about events that occur in the same place. We are talking about an event occurring at Westminster Abbey (e.g. coronation) and a separate event occurring in Australia (the time there when the coronation is deemed to have taken place). Those two events are space-like separated.

We need a simultaneity convention for that. A rotating reference frame is a poor starting point for defining a simultaneity standard. A good choice would instead be an Earth-centered inertial frame.
 
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  • #93
A few recent posts about clearly non-physical things have been deleted. Thank you to those who wrote good information to correct some misconceptions.

Please remember, the topic of this thread is about axioms in physics. Relativity discussions belong in the relativity forum.
 
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  • #94
I think a point that may be relevant here is that Mathematics isn't bound by Physical reality, as the Banach-Tarski Paradox whereby we can turn a ball B with volume V into two such balls with volume V each , through (relatively straighforward -- Mathematically) transformations, shows ; something that cannot be implemented physically.
 
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