Topological dimension of the image of a smooth curve in a manifold

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the topological dimension of the image of a smooth curve mapped from the interval [0,1] into a topological manifold M. Participants explore whether the image, given the subspace topology induced by M, always has a topological dimension less than or equal to 1. The conversation touches on various aspects of topology, including the implications of smoothness, injectivity, and the nature of the curve.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the image of a smooth curve must have dimension less than or equal to 1, but emphasize that this holds without restrictions on the curve being injective or an immersion.
  • Others introduce the concept of space-filling curves, which can have higher dimensions, arguing that such examples challenge the claim about the dimension of the image of a smooth curve.
  • A participant references the Inverse Function Theorem, suggesting that around points where the derivative is non-zero, the image behaves like a 1-dimensional manifold.
  • Another participant mentions Sard's theorem, noting its relevance to the measure of the image but clarifying that it does not directly address the topological dimension issue.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between Lebesgue measure and topological dimension, indicating that a set can have measure zero while potentially having a higher topological dimension.
  • A later reply introduces Szpilrajn's result, which states that inductive dimension is less than Hausdorff dimension, proposing this as a way to argue for the topological dimension of the image being less than or equal to 1.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the dimensionality of the image of the curve, with some arguing for a maximum dimension of 1 while others present counterexamples that suggest higher dimensions are possible. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the implications of the various theorems and examples presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding assumptions about the smoothness and injectivity of the curve, as well as the specific nature of the manifold M. The relationship between measure and topological dimension is also highlighted as a point of contention.

Rick_D
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Here is the situation I am concerned with -

Consider a smooth curve g:[0,1] \to M where M is a topological manifold (I'd be happy to assume M smooth/finite dimensional if that helps). Let Im(g) be the image of [0,1] under the map g. Give Im(g) the subspace topology induced by M.


The question is this --- as a topological space, does Im(g) always have (topological) dimension \leq 1 ?

Note that it IS important not to restrict g to be either injective or an immersion - then the result is straightforward. The tricky thing is that g may not be constant rank and also may not be a submanifold of M (or even a manifold at all).

Also, a reference to a proof is fine, I don't really need to know HOW to prove it, I just need to be certain that it is true. It certainly seems intuitively obvious...

I've seen a number of statements (without reference or proof) that Im(g) [/[STRIKE][/STRIKE]itex] must have zero Lebesque measure. I don&#039;t immediately see how this would answer the above question, so any references or proofs on this front would be useful as well.<br /> <br /> Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There are the so-called space-filling curves that are continuous surjective maps [0,1]-->[0,1]^n for any n. In particular, making the n-cube into a torus, you get a continuous curve [0,1]-->T^n whose image has dimension n since it is the whole torus.

Note that such a curve cannot be injective. Otherwise, it would be a bijection from a compact space into a Hausdorff space, hence a homeomorphism, which would contradict invariance of dimension.

No differentiable space-filling curve can exist, but there are ones that are smooth almost everywhere.

These things are discussed in the Dover book "Counter-examples in topology"
 
Rick_D said:
Here is the situation I am concerned with -

Consider a smooth curve g:[0,1] \to M where M is a topological manifold (I'd be happy to assume M smooth/finite dimensional if that helps). Let Im(g) be the image of [0,1] under the map g. Give Im(g) the subspace topology induced by M.


The question is this --- as a topological space, does Im(g) always have (topological) dimension \leq 1 ?

Note that it IS important not to restrict g to be either injective or an immersion - then the result is straightforward. The tricky thing is that g may not be constant rank and also may not be a submanifold of M (or even a manifold at all).

Also, a reference to a proof is fine, I don't really need to know HOW to prove it, I just need to be certain that it is true. It certainly seems intuitively obvious...

I've seen a number of statements (without reference or proof) that Im(g) [/[STRIKE][/STRIKE]itex] must have zero Lebesque measure. I don&#039;t immediately see how this would answer the above question, so any references or proofs on this front would be useful as well.<br /> <br /> Thanks!
<br /> <br /> I think this is your answer.<br /> <br /> For smooth curves around any point where the derivative is not zero there is a neighborhood of the point mapped diffeomorphically onto its image. this i think is the Inverse Function Theorem so the image around such a point is a 1 dimensional manifold.<br /> <br /> Near a point where the derivative is zero this is still true if the point is isolated - not hard to prove. If there is an interval where the derivative is zero then this interval is mapped to a single point. So locally the image looks like a one dimensional manifold or a point.<br /> <br /> <br /> Since your interval is compact there can be no points of accumululation that are not in the image. This in any neighborhood of a point where the derivative is not zero the image is an embedded 1 dimensional manifold.
 
Bacle2 said:
Sard's theorem may help for when the curve is embedded in R^m :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sard's_theorem

I think the Inverse function theorem works because one of the projections onto one of the coordinate axes must have non-zero derivative.
 
lavinia said:
I think the Inverse function theorem works because one of the projections onto one of the coordinate axes must have non-zero derivative.

Do you mean when M is embedded in R^n ? I don't know if the OP is assuming this.

And, my bad: Sard's theorem tells us something about the measure of the image,(since, in the 1xm Jacobian, every point in I=[0,1] is necessarily a critical point) but there is no connection in this respect between measure and topological dimension; e.g., in R^n, any (measurable)subset of dimension less than n will have n-dimensional Lebesgue measure 0, so that does not narrow it down much, definitely not enough.
 
Bacle2 said:
Do you mean when M is embedded in R^n ? I don't know if the OP is assuming this.

And, my bad: Sard's theorem tells us something about the measure of the image,(since, in the 1xm Jacobian, every point in I=[0,1] is necessarily a critical point) but there is no connection in this respect between measure and topological dimension; e.g., in R^n, any (measurable)subset of dimension less than n will have n-dimensional Lebesgue measure 0, so that does not narrow it down much, definitely not enough.

I mean that id the derivative is not zero at some point then the derivative of the composition of the curve with one of the projections must also be non-zero. Smoothness then allows the Inverse Function theorem to guarantee a local diffeomorphism. This seems OK.
 
A small variant of the problem: if we're looking to preserve Hausdorff dimension--I assume by topological dimension the OP meant Lebesgue covering dimension-- then we can use that continuously-differentiable maps on a compact metric space, i.e., [0,1] , are Lipschitz, so that there is a bound to the scaling of the diameter d of the sets in the cover, and it follows that the Hausdorff dimension is preserved.
 
Luckily, a topologist/geometer friend of mine helped me to this result:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lt...ge&q=Szpilrajn and lebesgue dimension&f=false

In which Szpilrajn (sp?) showed that inductive (topological) dimension is less than the Haudorff dimension.

So, for an alternative argument: we start with I=[0,1]. Then we use the fact that

a C^oo (C^1 is enough, AFAIK) map is Lipschitz, so that f preserves the Hausdorff

dimension , and then use Szpilrajn's inequality. It then follows, if I did not miss any thing,

that the image curve has topological dimension <=1.
 
  • #10
Thanks!

That's definitely what I was looking for - the books I have on dimension theory only talk about the inductive and covering dimensions, and I just found out about the Hausdorff dimension. This definitely does the trick - thanks again.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K