Transformer Output in Non-inertial Frame: Frequency Change?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of an electromagnetic transformer when powered by a sine-wave while simultaneously accelerating in a non-inertial frame. Participants explore the implications of frequency changes and the relationship between the transformer's output and the frame of reference used to measure frequency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the output frequency of the transformer will change due to acceleration, suggesting that the frequency is frame-dependent.
  • Another participant asserts that acceleration is not relevant to circuit theory and implies that solving the problem with Maxwell’s equations would be complex.
  • Some participants argue that the equipment connected to the transformer is typically at rest relative to it, suggesting that this may negate any frequency change.
  • A detailed scenario involving a transformer and generator on a swing is proposed, with questions about whether the oscilloscope would detect a frequency-modulated sine-wave.
  • One participant states that transformers, as passive components, do not change the frequency of the signals passing through them, contrasting them with active components like diodes and generators.
  • A suggestion is made to replace the generator with an oscillator made of a capacitor and inductor, although the participant expresses skepticism about the necessity of connecting it to a transformer since the frequency does not change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the frequency of the transformer's output will change due to acceleration, with some asserting it will not change while others suggest it may, depending on the frame of reference. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of specifying the frame of reference when discussing frequency, indicating that assumptions about the system's setup and the nature of the components involved may affect the conclusions drawn.

Samson4
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In this example I'd like to know about the output of the transformer. What happens if an electromagnetic transformer is powered by a sine-wave and simultaneously accelerating at non-relativistic speeds?

I assume the output will still be a sine-wave but the frequency will change. Is this correct?
 
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Samson4 said:
What happens if an electromagnetic transformer is powered by a sine-wave...
What is the source of this sine wave and what frame are you using when you specify its frequency?
I assume ... the frequency will change.
Because frequencies are always frame-dependent, it is never sufficient to speak of the frequency of something without also specifying the frame you're using. Chances are that when you say "the frequency" you mean either "the frequency using an inertial frame in which the transformer is momentarily at rest" or "the frequency using the non-inertial frame in which the transformer is always at rest"... but you'll have to tell us which it is.
 
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Acceleration isn’t part of circuit theory.

This would be a hard problem to solve with Maxwell’s equations outside of a dedicated numerical solver.
 
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Samson4 said:
What happens if an electromagnetic transformer is powered by a sine-wave and simultaneously accelerating at non-relativistic speeds?
Nothing. The equipment to which the transformer is connected is usually at rest with respect to the transformer.
 
David Lewis said:
Nothing. The equipment to which the transformer is connected is usually at rest with respect to the transformer.

A more specific and detailed scenario; the transformer and generator are placed on a play-swing and the ouput is connected to an oscilloscope placed directly in the center of the swing's trajectory. There are leads that connect the output to the scope. The oscilloscope will see a frequency modulated sine-wave?
 
Samson4 said:
A more specific and detailed scenario; the transformer and generator are placed on a play-swing and the ouput is connected to an oscilloscope placed directly in the center of the swing's trajectory. There are leads that connect the output to the scope. The oscilloscope will see a frequency modulated sine-wave?
I think that you will need to get a dedicated numerical solver to determine this.
 
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Samson4 said:
A more specific and detailed scenario; the transformer and generator are placed on a play-swing and the ouput is connected to an oscilloscope placed directly in the center of the swing's trajectory. There are leads that connect the output to the scope. The oscilloscope will see a frequency modulated sine-wave?
A transformer is a passive component, like a resistor. Neither can change the frequency of the signal going trough them.

A diode is an active component, it can generate frequencies, by distorting the input signal. A generator is very likely an active component - it generates an output signal, while the input signal does not exist - or something like that.

I suggest that instead of a generator we use an oscillator made of a capacitor and an inductor. We put the oscillator on a swing, and we can connect the oscillator to a transformer too - I just don't see any point in that because the frequency does not change.

I got my information about passive and active components from here:
https://electronics.stackexchange.c...tiation-between-passive-and-active-components
 
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