Transpose of a matrix with mixed indices

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of transposing matrices with mixed indices, particularly in the context of linear maps and inner product spaces. Participants explore the notation and implications of transposing matrices and the relationships between different index positions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the right transpose of a matrix \( A_i{}^j \) is \( A_j{}^i \) or \( A^j{}_i \).
  • Another participant clarifies that if \( A_i{}^j \) represents the element in row \( i \), column \( j \), then the transpose should have \( A_j{}^i \) in the same position.
  • A third participant presents an equation involving a transpose in index notation and expresses uncertainty about the correctness of the index positions on both sides of the equation.
  • Another participant discusses conventions in special relativity regarding the notation of the metric tensor \( g \) and its inverse, as well as the implications for the transpose operation in this context.
  • One participant introduces a more general framework involving linear maps between vector spaces and describes a coordinate-independent definition of the transpose for such maps, including detailed mathematical expressions and relationships between indices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct notation and implications of transposing matrices with mixed indices. There is no consensus on the correctness of the specific equations presented, and multiple interpretations of the transpose operation are discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific conventions and notations that may depend on the context of special relativity and inner product spaces, which could affect the interpretation of the transpose operation.

eoghan
Messages
201
Reaction score
7
Hi!
Given a matrix A of elements [itex]A_i\;^j[/itex], which is the right transpose:
[itex]A_j\;^i[/itex]
or
[itex]A^j\;_i[/itex]
?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Assuming that you mean that ##A_i{}^j## is what's on row i, column j, then the transpose of the matrix has ##A_j{}^i## on row i, column j.
 
Uhm... I have this equation:
[tex]\Lambda^T g \Lambda = g[/tex]
in index notation:
[tex] \left( \Lambda^T \right)^{\mu}\;_{\rho} g^{\rho}\;_{\alpha}\Lambda^{\alpha}\;_{\nu}=<br /> g^{\mu}\;_{\nu}[/tex]
now,
[tex] \left( \Lambda^T \right)^{\mu}\;_{\rho}=\Lambda^{\rho}\;_{\mu}[/tex]
right?
And so I get:
[tex] \Lambda^{\rho}\;_{\mu} g^{\rho}\;_{\alpha}\Lambda^{\alpha}\;_{\nu}=<br /> g^{\mu}\;_{\nu}[/tex]
Is this equation correct? (I don't think so, because the positions of the indices on the both sides are not correct)
 
Actually, in this context (special relativity), it's conventional to write row ##\rho##, column ##\alpha## of ##g## as ##g_{\rho\alpha}##.

The convention for ##g^{-1}## is that row ##\rho##, column ##\alpha## is written as ##g^{\rho\alpha}##.

Also note that when you multiply the original equation by ##g^{-1}## from the left, you find that $$\Lambda^{-1}=g^{-1}\Lambda^Tg.$$ Row ##\rho##, column ##\alpha## of this matrix is written as
$$(\Lambda^{-1})^\rho{}_\alpha =(g^{-1}\Lambda^Tg)^\rho{}_\alpha =g^{\rho\beta}\Lambda^\mu{}_\beta g_{\mu\alpha}=\Lambda_\alpha{}^\rho.$$
 
Last edited:
here's my 2 cents.

suppose i have two vector spaces (say X and Y) and a linear map f:X->Y
then you automatically get a map f*:Y*->X*
usually called the transpose or pullback. it's defined in the obvious way. let ω in Y*
then (f*ω)(x) = ω(fx).

if we have an inner product on X and Y we have an identification of X*
with X and Y* with Y. we can use this to define the transpose map
fT: Y ->X.

Specifically, define θ:X->X* by (θx)(x') = (x,x') for all x' in X.
similarly let ψ:Y->Y* {(ψy)(y')=(y,y')}. We put
fT = θ-1f*ψ.

or θfT = f*ψ.
then for any y we have
θfT(y) = f*ψ(y)
both sides are elements of X* so that we can compare them
by their action on an arbitrary x in X
θfT(y)[x] = (fTy, x)
f*ψ(y)[x] = ψ(y)( fx ) = (y, fx)

so we have a coordinate independent definition of transpose for
a map between two inner product spaces.
Take a basis for X and Y.

And find the components of any map f:X->Y by
(fx)i = fij xj

we have
(y, fx) = gijyi(fx)j = gijyifjkxk

and(fTy, x) = Gij(fTy)ixj= Gij(fT)ikykxj.

Reindex the dummy variables and compare:
gijfjk = Gjk(fT)ji.

or using the convention that the inverse of G has components Gij

(fT)ij = gjkfklGli.

using the convention that g (or G) raises or lowers indices we have

(fT)ij = fji.

-----------------------

This is just a longwinded way to say
gijfjk = Gjk(fT)ji is the same as fik = (fT)ki,
then make indices match on both sides of the equation.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
7K