Trouble with the concept of tension....

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of tension in a rope during a tug-of-war scenario, exploring the implications of mass and acceleration on tension distribution. Participants are examining the conditions under which tension remains constant or varies along the length of the rope, referencing Newton's laws of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the nature of tension in a rope when forces are applied at both ends, particularly in cases involving a massive rope versus a massless rope. They discuss the implications of unbalanced forces and the conditions for static versus dynamic scenarios.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with participants providing insights into the behavior of tension under different conditions. Some participants are seeking clarification on the relationship between the forces exerted by individuals and the resulting tension in the rope, while others are emphasizing the importance of considering the mass of the rope and the system's acceleration.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing exploration of the assumptions regarding the mass of the rope and the forces involved in the tug-of-war scenario. Participants are also addressing the implications of Newton's laws in both static and dynamic contexts, highlighting the complexities of analyzing tension in real-world applications.

  • #91
kuruman said:
Let's examine and interpret the equations in your drawing. You have

View attachment 316230
Equation 1: Ft - 10 = 1*a
Here Ft is the tension, 10 (N) is the weight of the mass on the left and 1*a is mass*acceleration

Equation 2: Ft - 20 = 1*(-a)

Here Ft is the tension, 20 (N) is the weight of the mass on the right and 1*(-a) ##\dots~## is what ? If the mass is 2 kg, the term should be 2*(-a) to be correct. Then one has
Ft - 10 (N) = a
Ft - 20 (N) = -2a
If the first equation is doubled and added it to the second, one gets
3 Ft - 40 (N) = 0 ⇒ Ft = 40/3 (N) = 13.3 (N) and that is the correct tension in the string connecting the masses. More generally, $$F_T=\frac{2m_1m_2}{m_1+m_2}g.
Thanks for pointing out the mistake
What I wanted to show by this example is that the following statement made by PeroK is wrong "B cannot be pulling on the string with 20N and the string pulling back with 15N. That violates Newton's third law."

In my FBD of B, there is 20N down and 13.3N up. This is similar to the question of the original poster - just that where the force comes from is different in the Atwood machine example vs the original poster's question
 
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  • #92
Thread closed temporarily for Moderation and possible thread split.

Update -- thread will remain closed.
 
Last edited:
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