# Trying to become a recognized home-grown scientist

1. ### cavemen

42
I am in a community college taking certificate classes because i need to start earning money urgently and wont be able to afford a 4-year college in the near future.

Yet I know physics and math to a fairly high extent and I have 2 theories/inventions.
I can't afford to patent those things as inventions and I can't prove those things as theories on my own.

I came up with a fairly new etching machine. I never built the whole thing but I tested it's working principle.

My experiments with Tolchin Apparatus lead me to some efficiency improvement to test the workability of the theory. My idea is that the experimental machine can be IMPROVED to isolate the linear force it produces more easily. (Not a great invention since I want to test the theory that Newton's third law can be violated.) Can't do it at home.

I cannot disclose my ideas.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am trying to get my ideas reviewed by some government organization because I want to get some degree of support and recognition for my work.

I am not given any attention. What can I do? What specific program should I seek as an independent researcher, not associated with any titled scientific organization or college?

How people like me should act in the US?

Thanks for helping.

2. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
You should start by finding some way to attend a reputable 4-year university. Many people do it with government assistance, or with loans, or by working every third semester, etc.

There are few shortcuts in life.

- Warren

3. ### cavemen

42
I cannot afford to change my life so drastically just because I hope to get some credits for my work.
+
The work is already done. I am not going to prove that I can do what I can do again.
+
Is science of someone who got a degree any different from science of a person that just happens to know physics?

It is social laws that restrain me not laws of physics and not lack of knowledge.

4. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
Since you have not yet attended college, you do not know this to be true.

All you need to publish your papers (as pre-prints, at least) is a single professor at a reputable university to vouch for you. If your ideas are so grand, this should not be hard to obtain.

If you have presented your ideas to professors, and the response has been lukewarm, then perhaps you are not restrained by "social laws" at all.

- Warren

5. ### cavemen

42
How can i disclose my ideas without someone taking them?

How can I present without disclosing and to be commercially attractive at the same time?

I know no professors personally. (certificate teachers don't count)

6. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
You could present your ideas along with a signed non-disclosure agreement, the same way corporations would.

- Warren

7. ### cavemen

42
I know for sure that it is the social laws. I self-educated myself to know it is not the physical. +I was never given a chance to test it in the laboratory.

I need help under the existing conditions. Thats the problem.

8. ### cavemen

42
That deals more with LAW.
I read several books on how to file a patent in the US, but not the research discipline.
How does this contract look like?

9. ### cavemen

42
So you want me to deal with faculty research and send them my theories.
But no one ever offered me to get my theories interviewed. I can't just send an email saying I am a Joe I have such and such ideas, do you want my ideas.
It never worked for me.

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If you drive Ford and happen to sit behind a Dell computer with Microsoft Windows operating system in and have a Facebook account, don’t ever forget that the Creators all this either never went to college or dropped out of college.

Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
10. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
I will be blunt. History provides virtually zero examples of "home-grown scientists" producing any significant scientific contributions. You have not had even a basic university education in physics, and you probably do not know the limits of your own knowledge. The chances of an amateur discovering or designing some machine that violates Newton's laws of motion are essentially zero. You have not built your machine, and it is far more likely that you have simply made some mistake in its design than that you have discovered new physics.

If you want to continue down the path of seeking publication, you can find examples of non-disclosure agreements ("NDAs") by searching Google. If people do not take you seriously even after being shown your design, consider the possibility that your ideas are simply wrong.

- Warren

11. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
None of these people made any contributions to science, or built anything that they argued violated existing physics. Your argument is a strawman.

Also, notice that all of these people had thousands of hours of experience in their fields before their rise to greatness. Do you?

- Warren

12. ### TMFKAN64

Don't go outside without your tinfoil hat? :-)

But to be serious, I'm not surprised that you are having problems. The world is full of "home-grown scientists" who are sure that they know more than the professors and academic elite. The vast majority of them are lunatics, so even if I am wrong about you in particular, this is the category that people will assign to you.

How to get around this? Well, first of all, go jump through the proper hoops. Go to a four year college and get a degree in the subject. Perhaps go to graduate school and get a more advanced degree.

OK, too much work for someone of your caliber. You need to get a patent, or at least to protect your rights to eventually obtain a patent. I'd suggest you take a careful look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art. This should give you some ideas on how you can reveal key parts of your technology and still prevent others from patenting them. (Protection against theft is more difficult. Read about intermittant windshield wipers and FM radio for example.)

Faraday? Or is that why you used the phrase "virtually zero"?

Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
13. ### cavemen

42
There was no need to insult me.
1) I taught myself using college textbooks.
2) Patents are not for theories, but for the inventions.
3) I wish that I could afford one.
4) Research first, patent second.

You are a "have" and you managed to get into the scientific elite and i am a "have not" so I didn't. Does not mean that we are working on two different physics. Science is for everybody.

I am sure that some of the lunatics have important points to prove. Most are not. Well, there are a lot of scientists that are scientists just for the title, too. So don't generalize. It is not something a scientific mind should do anyways. (Unless you are a eugenicist.)

14. ### cavemen

42
I work. I don't need little child kind of advice.
I can tell right from wrong myself. All I am telling you is that I need some way of presenting my ideas to the world safely. +I need some way of experimenting because reference tables and books don't answer all my questions.

15. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
cavemen, you're just whining. There are thousands of reasonably cheap state schools all across the country, and the government gives grants and interest-subsidized loans for people of humble means. The country is absolutely full of self-made people. I have personally known single mothers who put themselves through college with nothing but a part-time waitressing job. Putting yourself in some imaginary "have-not" category, or claiming that the doors of higher education are closed to you, is just dishonest.

So why are you still whining? You have your idea, and you know how to protect it (non-disclosure agreements). Nothing is stopping you from turning physics on its ear.

- Warren

16. ### cavemen

42
I would like to thank all the polite members of the conversation, inform everybody that i am a married individual and in debt by the court decision and say that "non-disclosure agreement" was the most important thing that I have learned from it.

Another question is: why wouldn't all the people go into those "cheap colleges" at once?
Competition. Now I will waste my free time preparing for standardized exams, fighting on three fronts instead of two. It is just STUPID.

17. ### chroot

10,426
Staff Emeritus
The vast majority of college students do go to "cheap colleges!"

- Warren

18. ### cavemen

42
We have different definitions for the word "cheap".
I am not that poor. I am a middle class man. Still far from being able to afford it.
It costs more per year than I earn. UM or Penn State
I am not self-sacrificing since i earn enough money to live and i just offered my ideas to the world
I can live without it.

19. ### TMFKAN64

Penn State tuition is about $15K per year for PA residents. CSU schools are much cheaper... about$5K tuition per year for CA residents. In addition, loans are available for some or all of this amount, plus living expenses.

As I said, perhaps you are not a lunatic. But when you claim to have a revolutionary theory/invention/whatever that you can't really tell anyone about because it will be stolen... you must understand that this sounds crazy. I think it's very unlikely that you'll find a professor willing to sign an NDA to discuss your invention.

You need credibility. Whether you believe it or not, a degree is the easiest way to obtain this.

20. ### cavemen

42
Then why is it such a haste to get in to one for an average high schooler, i happened to be some three years ago?

It is like getting a second job that brings you a negative income.