Trying to understand concepts in calculus

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    Calculus Concepts
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around understanding the concepts of curl and divergence in vector fields, particularly in the context of calculus. Participants explore the implications of these concepts, their mathematical derivations, and their applications to real-life scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand what curl and divergence actually represent in a physical context.
  • There is a question about whether a vector field expressed in terms of (x,y,z) represents the interaction at any point within that field and if it can model a nonuniform field.
  • Another participant provides a conceptual explanation of divergence, describing it as a measure of flux out of a small volume and outlines a method to derive its mathematical expression.
  • A participant mentions the complexity of deriving equations that represent real-life scenarios, suggesting that the universe does not provide these equations directly.
  • There is a brief mention of the curl, indicating that its derivation involves measuring circulation around a square, but details are not fully elaborated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express curiosity and share insights, but there is no consensus on the interpretations or implications of curl and divergence. The discussion remains open-ended with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of vector fields and their representations, as well as the mathematical steps involved in deriving divergence and curl, which are not fully resolved.

switz5678
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I just finished up a Calculus class which went into fields, and I learned how to find the curl of the field and also the divergence of the field. What I want to know is what does the curl/div of the field actually show us?

Also when you have a field (x,y,z) = (Something)i + (something)j + (something)k does that just model the interaction felt at any given point within that field? Is it representative of a nonuniform field?

I also was wondering how do we derive the equations to represent these complexities in real life scenarios? I'm sure the universe doesn't hand us equations to solve for like class
 
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For the divergence, you can imagine a little tiny box. The divergence measure measures the flux out of that box. Actually, it's really the limit of that divided by volume of the box as the volume goes to zero. You can derive the actual expression for the divergence that way.

So, let's just do the flux through the top panel of the box and the bottom. Let's say the field is F(x, y, z).

For the top panel, we just increase z by a little tiny bit to see how strong the field is there, and we get F(x,y,z + dz). But, if you know how flux works, it only measures the normal component of the field that is going through a surface. So, we're really only interested in the z-component of the field, F_z(x,y,dz). The flux through the top will be approximately equal to the area of the top, that is dx dy, times that.

So, the flux through the top panel is F_z(x, y, z+dz) dx dy.

Similarly, for the bottom panel, we get that the flux is -F_z(x, y, z) dx dy.

You may be starting to see where the partial derivative of the z-component might be coming from when you take the limit now.

You can do the flux for all the other panels, divide by the volume, which is dx dy dz, and then you let dx, dy, and dz all go to zero. Then you get the usual expression for the divergence.

You can do the curl in similar way, except it's a little bit messier because the curl is measuring the circulation around the edge of a little square, but that's just for the components of the curl, which is actually a vector field. So, you can do that for a square parallel to each coordinate plane and you get the components of the curl. Then, if you have an oriented square in a different position, the circulation will be given by the dot product of its normal vector with the curl. It takes some thought to work this all out, but that's the general idea. I don't feel like going through all the details here.
 

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