Turbulence - just a phenomenon of cavitation?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between turbulence and cavitation in fluids, questioning whether turbulence is merely a phenomenon of cavitation. Participants explore the definitions and characteristics of both phenomena, examining their distinctions and contexts of occurrence.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that turbulence is a separate phenomenon from cavitation, describing turbulence as involving tiny perturbations in flow that lead to chaotic behavior.
  • Others explain that cavitation involves the formation and implosion of cavities in a liquid due to rapid pressure changes, which is distinct from the flow characteristics of turbulence.
  • One participant notes that cavitation can occur in standing fluids, while turbulence requires a flowing fluid, emphasizing that turbulence cannot exist without an average velocity.
  • It is mentioned that turbulence can occur in both liquids and gases, whereas cavitation is limited to liquids and involves a phase change from liquid to gas.
  • Additional insights include the effects of cavitation in specific contexts, such as sonar systems, where it can cause physical damage and create an impedance mismatch.
  • There is a mention of sonoluminescence as a phenomenon associated with cavitation bubbles emitting light under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that turbulence and cavitation are different and unrelated phenomena, but there is ongoing discussion about the specifics of their definitions and contexts. The relationship between the two remains contested, with no consensus reached on the initial question posed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the need for clarity in definitions and the conditions under which turbulence and cavitation occur. There are unresolved nuances regarding the implications of energy input and flow characteristics in both phenomena.

Loren Booda
Messages
3,115
Reaction score
4
Turbulence -- just a phenomenon of cavitation?

Is turbulence exclusively cavitation of a fluid?

Please give me your insight on this idea.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org


No. Turbulence is a completely separate phenomenon from cavitation. Turbulence has to do with tiny perturbations in a flow growing to the point where the flow becomes highly chaotic.
 


Just to add in, cavitation has to do with fluids under high force (as in a boat's prop):

WIkipedia.org said:
Cavitation is the formation and then immediate implosion of cavities in a liquid – i.e. small liquid-free zones ("bubbles") – that are the consequence of forces acting upon the liquid. It usually occurs when a liquid is subjected to rapid changes of pressure that cause the formation of cavities where the pressure is relatively low.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation
 


Additionally, cavitation can occur near the face of a high power sonar transducer (transmitter). When the acoustic intensity gets so high that the low-pressure of the wave is strong enough to rip the water apart, it creats tiny bubbles of dissolved gas. Cavitation is "bad" for a sonar system because it creates a huge impedance mismatch between the transducer and the water. Also the imploding bubbles can physically damage the transducer face.

One interesting sidelight: If the conditions are right the cavitation bubbles will emit a picosecond pulse of light, the color depends on the kinds of dissolved gasses. This is called "sonoluminesence".
 
Last edited:


To emphasize what has already been said,

They are different and unrelated phenomena.
In particular you need a flowing fluid to exhibit turbulence, it cannot exist in a fluid with no average velocity.
Turbulence is a property of flow.

Cavitation, on the other hand can, and does, exist in a tank of standing fluid. It is not a property of flow.

edit:

Turbulence can, and does, occur in both liquids and gasses. It can either be a local or global property of the flow.

Cavitation occurs when the local input of energy to the fluid is sufficient to cause phase change from liquid to gas within the body of the fluid. As such it can only occur in liquids.


go well
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
3K