Two concentrations of calcium ions inside and outside the membrane

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of calcium ion concentrations inside and outside a membrane, specifically focusing on the calculation of the Nernst potential and the conditions for equilibrium in relation to the resting potential of a cell.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Mark questions whether calcium ions can be considered in equilibrium if the resting potential is 70mV, suggesting that at equilibrium the Nernst potential would be zero due to the logarithmic relationship in the equation.
  • Another participant clarifies that equilibrium does not imply equal concentrations but rather that the concentration difference is balanced by the resting potential, emphasizing that calcium ions carry a double charge.
  • Mark expresses uncertainty about determining equilibrium, stating that he can only derive the ratio of the two concentrations.
  • A later reply acknowledges that the concentration gradient drives ion motion, not the absolute concentrations, and suggests that Mark may be conflating the Nernst potential with the resting potential.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the interpretation of equilibrium in the context of calcium ions and their relationship to the Nernst potential and resting potential, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential misunderstandings regarding the definitions of equilibrium and the Nernst potential, as well as the implications of ion charge on these concepts.

msoric
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This isn't homework - just working through questions in my text. The question gives two concentrations of calcium ions inside and outside the membrane and asks to find the Nernst potential - ok no problem there.

Then it asks if the calcium ions are in equilibrium if the resting potential is 70mV. If they were in equilibrium, then

E = (RT/zF)(ln([outisde]/[inside])

But then, at calcium equilibrium, the ratio would be 1... ln(1) = 0 and there would be no potential... am I correct?

Thanks,

Mark
 
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I can't exactly figure out what you mean, but I wonder if you are mixing up a couple of ideas. At equilibrium, there is not equal concentrations; there is no current flow. The difference in concentration is balanced by the resting potential (which is the E in your equation). Don't forget calcium has 2 charges.
 


I still can't see how to figure out if the calcium is in equilibrium, I would only be able to get the ratio of the two concentrations... no?

mark
 


I suppose that's true, the concentration *gradient* is what drives motion, not the absolute value of concentration. But again, I think I am not really understanding your original question. It almost seems as if you are treating the Nernst and resting potential to be the same (and I don't think they are).
 

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