Two different answers for compound pendulum problem

Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around the differing results obtained from two methods of solving a compound pendulum problem. The first method, which calculates the moment of inertia and torque, yields a time period of 1.36 seconds, while the second method, based on the center of mass, gives a time period of 1.33 seconds. The discrepancy arises because the moment of inertia of the system is not equivalent to that of the center of mass, which is crucial for accurate calculations. Participants clarify that the center of mass and the radius of inertia are fundamentally different concepts, impacting the results. Ultimately, the compound pendulum cannot be treated as a simple pendulum due to these differences in moment of inertia.
etotheipi
Homework Statement
A pendulum is made up of a light rigid beam of length 𝐿=0.50m and two point masses. The beam is attached to a fixed point at one end. One of the masses is of mass 𝑀=2.0kg and is attached to the beam at the opposite end to this fixed point. The other mass is of mass 𝑚=0.80kg and is attached to the beam a distance 𝑥=0.30m away from the fixed point.
Relevant Equations
$$I = \Sigma m r^{2}$$
I completed this problem in two different ways, and wonder why they give different answers.

Firstly, I calculate the moment of inertia of the system as I = 0.572 kg m^{2}, and the total torque acting on the system as 12.152 N. Thus I can apply the rotational analogue of NII to write $$-12.152\theta = 0.572\ddot{\theta}$$ which is the SHM condition, with time period of 1.36 seconds. This is the correct answer.

For the second method, I calculated the centre of mass of the rod/particles as being 0.443 m from the pivot, and worked this through in the normal way to obtain the standard T=2 \pi \sqrt{ \frac{l}{g} } relation. which gives a value of 1.33 seconds.

For reference, this what I did explicitly:$$-m_{tot}g\theta = ma$$I used x = l\theta where x is the tangential displacement of the centre of mass and l is the distance of the centre of mass of the pivot.

I know that the moment of inertia of a system is not necessarily equal to the moment of inertia of its centre of mass, so it would obviously wrong to use the moment of inertia of the centre of mass in the first method. I believe the mistake in the second method has something to do with this line of reasoning, but can't pinpoint it since my second method makes no reference to moment of inertia.

Why is it that using the centre of mass of the pendulum does not give the correct answer for time period?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
etotheipi said:
calculated the centre of mass of the rod/particles
That is not relevant. The centre of mass is based on ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i}{\Sigma m_i}##. For radius of inertia you need ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i^2}{\Sigma m_i}##
 
  • Like
Likes DEvens
haruspex said:
That is not relevant. The centre of mass is based on ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i}{\Sigma m_i}##. For radius of inertia you need ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i^2}{\Sigma m_i}##

This makes sense, though I still can't quite see why the compound pendulum isn't equivalent to a simple pendulum with a single mass at the centre of mass.
 
etotheipi said:
This makes sense, though I still can't quite see why the compound pendulum isn't equivalent to a simple pendulum with a single mass at the centre of mass.
Because, as I showed, it does not have the same moment of inertia.
Consider the extreme cases: with one mass at the pivot you are left with a simple pendulum length L; with the two masses together you have a simple pendulum length L/2.
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
17
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K