Two different answers for compound pendulum problem

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a compound pendulum problem where the original poster explores two different methods to calculate the time period of oscillation, resulting in differing answers. The subject area includes concepts of rotational dynamics, moment of inertia, and the behavior of pendulums.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the moment of inertia and torque to derive the time period using two distinct methods, questioning the discrepancy in results. Some participants clarify the difference between the center of mass and the radius of inertia, while others express confusion about the equivalence of the compound pendulum to a simple pendulum.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing clarifications regarding the calculations and concepts involved. There is an ongoing exploration of the reasons behind the differing results and the implications of using the center of mass in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are examining the definitions and calculations related to moment of inertia and center of mass, with some uncertainty about the assumptions made in the original poster's methods. The nature of the problem suggests that homework constraints may be influencing the approach to the solution.

etotheipi
Homework Statement
A pendulum is made up of a light rigid beam of length 𝐿=0.50m and two point masses. The beam is attached to a fixed point at one end. One of the masses is of mass 𝑀=2.0kg and is attached to the beam at the opposite end to this fixed point. The other mass is of mass 𝑚=0.80kg and is attached to the beam a distance 𝑥=0.30m away from the fixed point.
Relevant Equations
$$I = \Sigma m r^{2}$$
I completed this problem in two different ways, and wonder why they give different answers.

Firstly, I calculate the moment of inertia of the system as I = 0.572 kg m^{2}, and the total torque acting on the system as 12.152 N. Thus I can apply the rotational analogue of NII to write $$-12.152\theta = 0.572\ddot{\theta}$$ which is the SHM condition, with time period of 1.36 seconds. This is the correct answer.

For the second method, I calculated the centre of mass of the rod/particles as being 0.443 m from the pivot, and worked this through in the normal way to obtain the standard T=2 \pi \sqrt{ \frac{l}{g} } relation. which gives a value of 1.33 seconds.

For reference, this what I did explicitly:$$-m_{tot}g\theta = ma$$I used x = l\theta where x is the tangential displacement of the centre of mass and l is the distance of the centre of mass of the pivot.

I know that the moment of inertia of a system is not necessarily equal to the moment of inertia of its centre of mass, so it would obviously wrong to use the moment of inertia of the centre of mass in the first method. I believe the mistake in the second method has something to do with this line of reasoning, but can't pinpoint it since my second method makes no reference to moment of inertia.

Why is it that using the centre of mass of the pendulum does not give the correct answer for time period?
 
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etotheipi said:
calculated the centre of mass of the rod/particles
That is not relevant. The centre of mass is based on ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i}{\Sigma m_i}##. For radius of inertia you need ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i^2}{\Sigma m_i}##
 
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haruspex said:
That is not relevant. The centre of mass is based on ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i}{\Sigma m_i}##. For radius of inertia you need ##\frac{\Sigma m_ir_i^2}{\Sigma m_i}##

This makes sense, though I still can't quite see why the compound pendulum isn't equivalent to a simple pendulum with a single mass at the centre of mass.
 
etotheipi said:
This makes sense, though I still can't quite see why the compound pendulum isn't equivalent to a simple pendulum with a single mass at the centre of mass.
Because, as I showed, it does not have the same moment of inertia.
Consider the extreme cases: with one mass at the pivot you are left with a simple pendulum length L; with the two masses together you have a simple pendulum length L/2.
 

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