Two port network model and analysis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the analysis of a two-port network model, specifically focusing on deriving transfer functions to plot the output voltage (V_o) in the context of a homework problem. The participants explore various models, parameters, and the implications of transmission line theory.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a homework problem involving transfer functions and the calculation of parameters for a two-port network, noting difficulties in deriving the transfer functions for different models.
  • Another participant suggests that if an ideal transmission line is source-terminated in its characteristic impedance and open-circuited at the other end, the output voltage (V_o) will experience only a time-delay without distortion of the input voltage (V_i).
  • A later reply reiterates the previous point about the time-delay and emphasizes the need to demonstrate the measured delay in the line using the provided parameters.
  • One participant addresses specific parts of the problem, stating that standard lumped-parameter exercises do not allow for a finite rise time to reproduce the output exactly, and calculates the delay time based on physical line length and phase velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of the output voltage in relation to the input voltage and the implications of the models being used. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of the various models or the conditions under which they apply.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the limitations of lumped-parameter models in accurately reproducing output characteristics, particularly concerning rise time and delay, but these aspects remain unresolved.

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Homework Statement


Greetings. I am having difficulty with a couple of parts to a homework problem. Mainly coming up with the transfer functions to plot V_o. See the picture for the problem statement:
[PLAIN]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5481/problempa.jpg

Homework Equations



l \leqq v_{ph}*T_{rise} / 10

Z_o = Z_c = 75\Omega

I've also included the model parameters for the two-port network:
[PLAIN]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1712/modelsz.jpg

The Attempt at a Solution



I found T_rise to be 6.66ns. I am able to calculate L and C for the line using the characteristic impedance equation from Z so L = 0.5*10^-6 H/m and C = 88.88*10^-12 F/m. I'm having difficulty with the transfer functions. I can find it for the 7 model:

\frac{1/LC}{s^2+s\frac{R}{L}+\frac{1}{LC}} = H(s)

But not for the other two. Also. In order to plot Vo correctly, we have to incorporate a delay operator with the ramp function as such:

\frac{1-e^{sT_{rise}/0.8}}{T_{rise}/0.8} = D(s)

So our final plot would be the step response (or ramp, as my colleagues and I think the professor wants) of D(s)*H(s).

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! Other examples for this type of problem is very difficult to find on the internet.
 
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I don't know about your various models, but it should be helpful to know the following: if an ideal transmission line is source-terminated in its characteristic impedance and the other end is open-circuited, there is no distortion of Vi at Vo. There is only a time-delay.

You can show this easily by using ABCD parameters for the resistor and for the line, then concatenating.
 
rude man said:
I don't know about your various models, but it should be helpful to know the following: if an ideal transmission line is source-terminated in its characteristic impedance and the other end is open-circuited, there is no distortion of Vi at Vo. There is only a time-delay.

You can show this easily by using ABCD parameters for the resistor and for the line, then concatenating.

I think that's what the problem is. We have to show that measured delay in the line with the given parameters.
 
I am addressing only your parts 4 and 5. The 2nd and 3rd are standard lumped-parameter exercises. Not sure about the first. I would have said there is no finite rise time that will repoduce exactly at the output with a lumped-parameter circuit.

The delay time is simply physical line length divided by phase velocity = 0.1/1.5e8 s.
.
 
Last edited:

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