Uncertainty Principle and the Second Law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the uncertainty principle and the second law of thermodynamics, particularly in light of a paper by Esther Hänggi and Stephanie Wehner. Participants explore theoretical implications, references to the paper, and the conceptual link between entropy and uncertainty.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for elaboration on how extra work could be extracted if the uncertainty principle is violated.
  • Another participant questions whether the paper implies that uncertainty is always required for the second law to hold, including at the classical level.
  • A participant provides a reference and DOI for the paper in question.
  • Another participant shares a free version of the paper available on arXiv.
  • One participant suggests that viewing entropy as uncertainty, based on Shannon's measure of information, indicates that uncertainty is necessary for the second law to hold.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of uncertainty for the second law, with no consensus reached on the implications of the paper or the relationship between entropy and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the assumptions underlying their claims, and there are unresolved questions regarding the definitions of uncertainty and entropy in this context.

Suwailem
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For those who read carefully the paper by Esther Hänggi and Stephanie Wehner: "A violation of the uncertainty principle implies a violation of the second law of thermodynamics":

1. Can you elaborate how extra work can be extracted if the UP is violated?

2. Does the paper implies that uncertainty is always required for the second law to hold, including at the classical level?
 
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Do you have a proper reference (or even a DOI) for that paper?
 
I cannot comment on the topic, but the reference is:

Esther Hänggi & Stephanie Wehner, "A violation of the uncertainty principle implies a violation of the second law of thermodynamics", Nature Communications 4, 1670 (2013), doi:10.1038/ncomms2665

Or simply look here (if you have Access to Nature Communications): http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n4/full/ncomms2665.html
 
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I think if we view entropy as uncertainty (which can be based on Shanon's measure of information), then it is obvious that uncertainty is necessary for the Second Law to hold.
 

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