Uncertainty values for non-Gaussian functions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating uncertainty values for non-Gaussian wave packet functions, specifically focusing on the functions \(\phi(k)\) and \(\psi(x)\). Participants are exploring how to determine uncertainties \(\Delta x\) and \(\Delta p\) and whether they satisfy the uncertainty principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the method for calculating uncertainties for non-Gaussian functions, questioning the arbitrary selection of values from a reference book. There is an exploration of statistical variance and its application to the uncertainty principle. Some participants attempt to derive expressions for \(\Delta k\) and \(\Delta x\), while others express confusion over the relationship between the wavefunctions and their Fourier transforms.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing their calculations and questioning the validity of their results. Some guidance has been offered regarding the statistical variance and its relevance to the uncertainty principle, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach for non-Gaussian functions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the wavefunctions in question may not be straightforwardly related through Fourier transforms, leading to potential complications in calculating uncertainties. There is also mention of differing interpretations of the problem setup and the need for clarity on the definitions used in the calculations.

PhyPsy
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Uncertainty values for non-Gaussian wave packet functions

Homework Statement


\phi(k)= \left\{ \begin{array}{cc} \sqrt{\frac{3}{2a^3}}(a-|k|), & |k| \leq a \\ 0, & |k|>a \end{array} \right.
\psi(x)= \frac{4}{x^2}sin^2 (\frac{ax}{2})
Calculate the uncertainties \Delta x and \Delta p and check whether they satisfy the uncertainty principle.

Homework Equations


\Delta x\Delta p \geq h/2

The Attempt at a Solution


The solution is worked out in the book, which is \Delta k=a and \Delta x=\pi /a. I understand that for a Gaussian distribution, you can use the standard deviation as \Delta x and \Delta k, and this leads to the lowest limit of the uncertainty relation, h/2. I don't see how I'm supposed to come up with \Delta x and \Delta k for non-Gaussian functions, though. The book seems to just pick \Delta k=a and \Delta x=\pi /a somewhat arbitrarily without explaining why these values were chosen. Could someone tell me if there is a method for figuring out what the uncertainties should be for non-Gaussian functions like this one?
 
Last edited:
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If we are measuring the eigenvalue a of an observable A, then we may characterize the uncertainty \Delta a in a using the statistical variance:

(\Delta a)^2 = \langle A^2 \rangle - \langle A\rangle^2.

This definition works for any state we use to compute the expectation values. In fact, this definition is the one used in the derivation of the generalized uncertainty principle.
 
\langle A\rangle=0 for both functions, so (\Delta a)^2= \int ^\infty _{-\infty}a^2 f(a) da

(\Delta k)^2= \int ^\infty _{-\infty} k^2 |\phi(k)|^2 dk = \frac{3}{2a^3} [\int ^0 _{-a} k^2 (a+k)^2 dk + \int ^a _0 k^2 (a-k)^2 dk]
=\frac{3}{2a^3} [(\frac{1}{3} a^2 k^3 + \frac{1}{2} a k^4 + \frac{1}{5} k^5)| ^0 _{-a} + (\frac{1}{3} a^2 k^3 - \frac{1}{2} a k^4 + \frac{1}{5} k^5)| ^a _0
=\frac{3}{2a^3} \frac{2}{30} a^5 = \frac{a^2}{10}
\Delta k = \frac{a}{\sqrt{10}}
\Delta p = \frac{a \hbar}{\sqrt{10}}

(\Delta x)^2= \int ^\infty _{-\infty} x^2 |\psi(x)|^2 dx = 16 \int ^\infty _{-\infty} \sin ^4 (\frac{ax}{2}) dx / x^2
=16[\frac{1}{2} a Si(ax) - \frac{1}{4} a Si(2ax) - \sin ^4 (\frac{ax}{2}) / x]|^\infty _{-\infty} = 16(\frac{a \pi}{2} - \frac{a \pi}{4}) = 4a \pi
\Delta x = 2 \sqrt{a \pi}

\Delta p \Delta x = \frac{2a \hbar \sqrt{a \pi}}{\sqrt{10}}
So whether or not this is greater than \hbar / 2 depends on what a is. Did I do something wrong here?
 
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PhyPsy said:
\langle A\rangle=0 for both functions, so (\Delta a)^2= \int ^\infty _{-\infty}a^2 f(a) da

(\Delta k)^2= \int ^\infty _{-\infty} k^2 |\phi(k)|^2 dk = \frac{3}{2a^3} [\int ^0 _{-a} k^2 (a+k)^2 dk + \int ^a _0 k^2 (a-k)^2 dk]
=\frac{3}{2a^3} [(\frac{1}{3} a^2 k^3 + \frac{1}{2} a k^4 + \frac{1}{5} k^5)| ^0 _{-a} + (\frac{1}{3} a^2 k^3 - \frac{1}{2} a k^4 + \frac{1}{5} k^5)| ^a _0
=\frac{3}{2a^3} \frac{2}{30} a^5 = \frac{a^2}{10}
\Delta k = \frac{a}{\sqrt{10}}
\Delta p = \frac{a \hbar}{\sqrt{10}}

I agree with this, but we'd also want to calculate \Delta p using \hat{x} = -i\hbar d/dp in the momentum representation. Note that \psi(x) is not the Fourier transform of \phi(k), so we really have two problems to solve here.

(\Delta x)^2= \int ^\infty _{-\infty} x^2 |\psi(x)|^2 dx = 16 \int ^\infty _{-\infty} \sin ^4 (\frac{ax}{2}) dx / x^2
=16[\frac{1}{2} a Si(ax) - \frac{1}{4} a Si(2ax) - \sin ^4 (\frac{ax}{2}) / x]|^\infty _{-\infty} = 16(\frac{a \pi}{2} - \frac{a \pi}{4}) = 4a \pi
\Delta x = 2 \sqrt{a \pi}

\Delta p \Delta x = \frac{2a \hbar \sqrt{a \pi}}{\sqrt{10}}
So whether or not this is greater than \hbar / 2 depends on what a is. Did I do something wrong here?

Again, this is a completely different wavefunction, so we can't use the uncertainty in momentum that we computed from the other one. Use \hat{p} = -i\hbar d/dx to compute it.
 
Actually, \psi (x) is the Fourier transform of \phi (k), or at least it is supposed to be...

\psi (x)= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi}} \int ^\infty _{-\infty} \phi(k) e^{ikx} dk
=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2 \sqrt{\pi a^3}} [\int ^0 _{-a} (a+k)e^{ikx} dk + \int ^a _0 (a-k)e^{ikx} dk]
=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2 \sqrt{\pi a^3}} [\int ^0 _{-a} ke^{ikx} dk - \int ^a _0 ke^{ikx} dk + a \int ^a _{-a} e^{ikx} dk]
=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2 \sqrt{\pi a^3}} [\frac{a}{ix} e^{-iax} + (1 - e^{-iax} )/ x^2 - \frac{a}{ix} e^{iax} - (e^{iax} - 1)/ x^2 + 2a \sin (ax) /x]

At this point, the book just says that after some calculations, the answer is \psi (x) = 4 \sin ^2 (\frac{ax}{2}) / x^2. I don't know how they came up with that; the answer I got is \frac{\sqrt{3}}{x^2 \sqrt{\pi a^3}} [1 - \frac{ax}{2} \sin (ax) - \cos (ax)].
 

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