Understanding a proof about groups and cosets

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof concerning groups and cosets, specifically examining the condition under which the left cosets Ha and Hb of a subgroup H in a group G are equal. The original poster seeks clarification on a specific line in the proof related to the identity element and its implications for the proof's validity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions the notation used in the proof, particularly the representation of the identity element. Other participants clarify that the identity in G is also the identity in H and discuss the implications of the definitions of cosets.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the proof's structure and reasoning, with some providing insights into the definitions and necessary conditions for subgroups. There is an ongoing examination of the proof's steps and the relationships between elements of the group and subgroup.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the necessity for certain conditions to hold for H to be a subgroup of G, which adds complexity to the discussion. The original poster's inquiry about the identity element suggests a focus on foundational concepts in group theory.

cragar
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Homework Statement


H is a subgroup of G, and a and b are elements of G.

Show that Ha=Hb iff [itex]ab^{-1} \in H[/itex] .

The Attempt at a Solution



line 1: Then a=1a=hb for some h in H.
then we multiply both sides by b inverse.
and we get [itex]ab^{-1}=h[/itex]
This is a proof in my book.
My question is on line 1 when they write 1a, is 1 the identity element in H.
So basically Ha=1a and this trick allows the rest to follow.
 
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H is a subgroup, so the identity in G is also the identity in H.
 
Actually my answer was a bit short, so let me expand on it a bit more.

Recall the definition ##Ha \equiv \{ ha \mid h \in H \}##. Let's consider the '=>' direction first and assume that ##Ha = Hb##. Consider the fixed element ##a##. Since ##e \in H## (I prefer e over 1 to indicate the identity element), ##a = ea \in Ha##. On the other hand, since Ha = Hb, ##a \in Hb## meaning that there exists some ##h \in H## such that ##a = hb##. From this is follows that ##a b^{-1} (= h) \in H## which is all you needed to show.

I assume that after that they proceed to show the converse, i.e. if ##a b^{-1} \in H## for the given elements ##a, b## then ##Ha = Hb##. I imagine that proof will run along the lines of: assume ##ab^{-1} \in H##, let ##h \in H## be arbitrary, then ##h a = h a (b^{-1} b) = h (a b^{-1}) b## and since H is a subgroup, ##h (ab^{-1})## is the product of two elements in H which is itself in H, so ##h a = h' b## with ##h' ( = h a b^{-1}) \in H##, hence ##Ha \subseteq Hb## - the proof for ##Hb \subseteq Ha## follows similarly.

[edit]Note that actually ##\forall a, b \in G \left( a, b \in H \implies ab^{-1} \in H \right)## is a necessary and sufficient condition for H to be a subgroup of G. So basically your theorem is "Ha = Hb iff H is a subgroup" or "For subgroups, and subgroups only, all right cosets are equal".
 
Last edited:
ok thanks
 

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