Understanding Dedekind Cuts and the Construction of Real Numbers in Analysis

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of Dedekind cuts in the construction of real numbers, specifically addressing the challenge of defining irrational numbers like π and e without explicitly referencing them. The participant highlights that while Dedekind cuts can define numbers such as √2 by considering all rationals less than the square root, defining other irrationals typically involves power series representations. The primary purpose of constructing Dedekind reals is to ensure the foundational consistency of real analysis rather than for practical calculations or theorem proving.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Dedekind cuts in real analysis
  • Familiarity with irrational numbers and their properties
  • Knowledge of power series and their applications
  • Basic principles of set theory and mathematical consistency
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the construction of real numbers using Dedekind cuts in detail
  • Explore power series representations for irrational numbers like π and e
  • Investigate the Least Upper Bound property and its implications in real analysis
  • Review foundational concepts in set theory relevant to mathematical consistency
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Students of mathematics, particularly those studying real analysis, educators teaching foundational concepts in analysis, and anyone interested in the theoretical underpinnings of irrational numbers and their constructions.

mmmboh
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Hi, I am independently learning analysis, I found videos online and Rudin's textbook, though I am unclear on one thing. I thought the point of dedekind cuts was to construct the reals without explicitly talking about the irrationals, which is why to get at the square root of 2 you let the cut be all rationals with x2<2, and x<0...But then how do you get numbers like pi, and e, or 21/2-1? If for example pi you said the cut where all rationals are less than pi, you would be explicitly talking about an irrational, which I thought goes against the purpose?
Would you instead take the power series representations?
 
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There are lots of ways you could go about defining an explicit cut for pi or for e, but it's not something you would typically bother doing. Generally speaking, constructing the Dedekind reals are not something you do for the purpose of calculation, or even for the purpose of proving theorems -- it's something you do to gain confidence that we haven't made any silly mistakes in setting up the foundations: so you can prove that the assumed consistency of set theory implies the consistency of real analysis.

Once you have the framework in place, you generally won't ever think about a Dedekind cut again -- the closest you'll get is invoking the Least Upper Bound property.
 

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