Understanding Equations in Classical Physics: Force, Motion, and Acceleration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of equations in classical physics related to force, motion, and acceleration, particularly in the context of circular and parabolic motion. Participants explore the implications of these equations and their applications in different coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the equation $$\sum_{}^{} \vec{F}_r = -mr \omega^2 \hat{r}$$ indicates that force changes ##\omega## while keeping ##r## constant, or if ##\omega## causes the force, or if it simply describes conditions for circular motion.
  • Another participant suggests that saying "force causes acceleration" is a convenient description, but emphasizes that it may be more accurate to state that the equation is satisfied under certain conditions.
  • A different viewpoint posits that the quantitative prediction is what truly matters, regardless of the phrasing used.
  • One participant discusses the differences between circular and parabolic motion, noting that in parabolic motion, the radial component of weight does not equal ##-mr\omega^2##, indicating that ##r## is varying.
  • Another participant questions whether knowing the motion is parabolic is sufficient to conclude it is not circular, suggesting that a better question might involve the effects of gravity near the Earth's surface.
  • A later reply reiterates the initial questions about the interpretation of force and acceleration in the context of Newton's laws, mentioning the role of impulse and momentum in understanding these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the relationships between force, acceleration, and motion, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in using polar coordinates for certain problems, suggesting that Cartesian coordinates may be more appropriate for analyzing varying radial components.

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In classical physics, when we say, for example:
$$\sum_{}^{} \vec{F}_r = -mr \omega^2 \hat{r}$$
are we saying that the force is what changes ##\omega## and keeps ##r## constant, which results in circular motion? Or are we saying that ##\omega## is what "causes the force"? Or are we just saying that if ##\vec{F}_r##, ##r##, and ##\omega## satisfy the above equation, then the motion in circular?
More generally, when we say ##\sum_{}^{} \vec{F} = m \vec{a}## are we saying that "force causes acceleration"? Or are we saying (in an inertial reference frame) "the particle has a nonzero acceleration, therefore, a force must have acted upon it".
 
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"Force causes acceleration" is a convenient description because usually you control the force (e. g. by pushing something) and the acceleration is the result of your action then.
In terms of physics, it is probably better to say "this equation is satisfied" or "this equation is satisfied if and only if the motion is circular".
 
MohammedRady97 said:
Or are we saying...
For physics it doesn’t really matter how you say it. The quantitative prediction matters.
 
mfb said:
"Force causes acceleration" is a convenient description because usually you control the force (e. g. by pushing something) and the acceleration is the result of your action then.
In terms of physics, it is probably better to say "this equation is satisfied" or "this equation is satisfied if and only if the motion is circular".

Suppose I want to explain why parabolic motion is not circular in terms of polar coordinates (not cartesian coordinates), here's how I think of it:
The radial component of the weight (net radial force) is NOT equal to ##-mr\omega^2##, instead, it is equal to ##m(\ddot{r} - r \omega^2)##. In other words, ##\ddot{r}## is nonzero which implies that ##r## is varying. I found the question of "why ##r## varies" impossible to answer in polar coordinates though, so I switched to cartesian coordinates (which are more suited for this problem) and found that ##r## varies.
Is my reasoning correct?
 
If you know that is parabolic, isn't this enough "argument" for not being circular?
I think that a better question will be "what will be the motion if the force is only gravity, near the surface of the Earth (constant direction and magnitude)".
Polar coordinates are indeed not so useful for this problem, as the force is not radial but it has constant direction.
 
MohammedRady97 said:
In classical physics, when we say, for example:
$$\sum_{}^{} \vec{F}_r = -mr \omega^2 \hat{r}$$
are we saying that the force is what changes ##\omega## and keeps ##r## constant, which results in circular motion? Or are we saying that ##\omega## is what "causes the force"? Or are we just saying that if ##\vec{F}_r##, ##r##, and ##\omega## satisfy the above equation, then the motion in circular?
More generally, when we say ##\sum_{}^{} \vec{F} = m \vec{a}## are we saying that "force causes acceleration"? Or are we saying (in an inertial reference frame) "the particle has a nonzero acceleration, therefore, a force must have acted upon it".
Normaly, the force causes acceleration because of the first Newton's law: In an iertial sistem, if no external action exists on a body it mantains it's relative constant velocity motion or it's relative rest. You can better understand this after you study impulse and momentum.
 

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