Understanding Randomness in Brownian Matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of randomness in Brownian motion, exploring whether advancements in computational power could lead to deterministic predictions of particle movement. It touches on the implications of quantum mechanics and the limitations of classical mechanics in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that as computational capabilities improve, it may become possible to predict the movement of particles in Brownian motion, raising questions about the deterministic nature of this motion.
  • Others argue that achieving accurate predictions would require complete knowledge of every molecule's type, position, and velocity, which is currently unattainable due to the sheer number of molecules involved.
  • A participant mentions that even with unlimited computational power, classical mechanics may not apply at small scales, and quantum mechanics introduces fundamental limits on knowledge of initial conditions.
  • Another participant reiterates the limitations posed by quantum mechanics, suggesting that exact predictions of quantum particle trajectories, as envisioned by Laplace, are impossible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the potential for deterministic predictions in Brownian motion, with some suggesting it may be possible under certain conditions, while others firmly argue against the feasibility of such predictions due to quantum mechanical constraints.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to computational power, the need for comprehensive initial data, and the applicability of classical versus quantum mechanics at small scales. These factors remain unresolved within the conversation.

EntropicThinker
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TL;DR
Can Brownian motion be predicted with advanced computing, and what implications does quantum mechanics have on its apparent randomness?
Video on Brownian matter that got me thinking

Brownian motion is a fundamental concept in physics, describing the random movement of particles suspended in a fluid. However, the apparent randomness of this motion is largely due to our limited understanding and computational power. As computational capabilities continue to advance, will it be possible to accurately predict the movement of particles in Brownian motion? If so, would this imply that the motion is deterministic, and what role would quantum mechanics play in our understanding of this phenomenon?
 
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A cubic cm of water weighs about 1 gram.
Water weighs around 18gm/mole.
So there are around 3*1022 molecules of water in a cubic cm.
Computational capabilities are nowhere near this.
 
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It's not just the computational power that is needed. A completely accurate prediction would require complete knowledge of the type, initial position, and initial velocity of every molecule.
(Water molecules move at over 1,000 mph on average in room-temperature water. So every molecule needs to be considered. There are about 1.5 sextillion molecules in a drop of water. So that is a lot of initial data to determine.)
 
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Google for “Laplace’s Demon”.
If classical mechanics applied at arbitrarily small scales, and we had unlimited computing power, and we had exact knowledge of all the initial conditions…. Then yes, we could predict the exact trajectory of every particle in a body of fluid. But we don’t have infinite computing power and even if we did classical mechanics doesn’t apply at sufficiently small scales and quantum mechanics says that there is no such thing as exact knowledge of the classical initial conditions.

So no, we cannot and never will be able to exactly predict the trajectories of quantum particles the way that Laplace was imagining.
 
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Nugatory said:
Google for “Laplace’s Demon”.
If classical mechanics applied at arbitrarily small scales, and we had unlimited computing power, and we had exact knowledge of all the initial conditions…. Then yes, we could predict the exact trajectory of every particle in a body of fluid. But we don’t have infinite computing power and even if we did classical mechanics doesn’t apply at sufficiently small scales and quantum mechanics says that there is no such thing as exact knowledge of the classical initial conditions.

So no, we cannot and never will be able to exactly predict the trajectories of quantum particles the way that Laplace was imagining.
Very insightful , thank you for your answer I appreciate it
 
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