Understanding Symmetric Groups: S4 Order & Products

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the order of the symmetric group S4 and the computation of products of permutations within this group. Participants are exploring the concepts of cycle notation and composition of permutations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to understand the order of S4 and how to compute the products of given permutations. Questions about the process of composition and the interpretation of cycles as functions are raised.

Discussion Status

Some participants are providing insights into the composition of cycles and the function representation of permutations. There is an ongoing exchange of ideas, with attempts to verify understanding and clarify misconceptions about specific products.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a solution manual that provides answers, but participants express confusion regarding the process. The discussion includes attempts to reconcile different interpretations of the results.

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What is the order of S4, the symmetric group on 4 elements? Compute these products in order of S4: [3124] o [3214], [4321] o [3124], [1432] o [1432].

Can I get help on how to do this. The solution's manual gives the answer on how to do the last two, but I don't understand the process whatsoever. Any help?
 
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Anybody know a good process of doing this?
 
For the order you count - it's the number of permutations on 4 elements.

You need to think of a cycle as a function: it takes an element of 1,..,4 (or n rather than 4 in general), and returns another element. If you give it x, then it either returns the element to the right of x as listed in the cycle, wrapping round from beginning to end, if x is in the cycle, or x if x is not in the cycle.

Thus (123) we think of as the function that sends 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 1, and leaves 4 alone.

Composition of cycles is just composition of these permutation functions, remembering functions 'start on the right' i.e. fg means do g first, then f. To simplify some composition to disjoint cycles, then you just need to see what happens to all of the possible inputs. For example

(123)(132)

we only need to see what happens to 1,2, and 3; 4 is unmoved.

1 is sent to 3 by (132), so I need to see where (123) sends 3. It sends it to 1.

2 is sent to 1 by (132), and 1 is sent to 2 by 123.

3 is sent to 2 by (132) and then 2 is sent to 3 by (123).

This (123)(132) fixes everything, and is the identity.
 
Thanks Matt for the reply.

To check if I understand correctly:
[3142]o[3214]

1 is sent to 4 by (3214), so I need to see where (3142) sends 4. It sends it to 2.

2 is sent to 1 by (3214), and 1 is sent to 4 by 3142.

3 is sent to 2 by (3214) and then 2 is sent to 3 by (3142).

4 is sent to 3 by (3214) and then 3 is sent to 1 by (3142).

ANSWERS:

(1342),(2431),(1234)
Is this correct?
 
You have the right idea (it would help if you wrote out what you think (3142)(3214) is, though), but the wrong answers. For instance, the third one is (13)(24); do you see why?
 
Aww yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the help!
 

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