Understanding Tensor Bases: Solving Equations in General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding tensor bases in the context of general relativity, specifically focusing on how to verify certain equations related to the metric tensor and its representation in terms of basis tensors. Participants explore the implications of various tensor operations and definitions provided in a referenced document.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about verifying that equation (18) follows from equations (13) and (17) in the referenced document, particularly regarding the expression for the metric tensor.
  • Another participant suggests using formula (6) to evaluate a specific tensor operation, indicating it leads to the first formula in (18).
  • A different participant proposes writing the metric tensor as a general tensor expanded in terms of the basis and questions what the resulting expression for g_{\alpha \beta} provides.
  • One participant discusses the implications of the inner product of basis vectors and how it relates to demonstrating the relationship between the metric tensor and the tensor product of basis vectors.
  • There is mention of a tutorial on formatting mathematical expressions in the forum, indicating a need for clarity in communication.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the verification of the equations or the implications of the tensor operations discussed. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and operations involved, particularly regarding the application of specific formulas and the implications of the inner products of basis vectors. There are unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on the definitions provided in the referenced document.

illuminatus33
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I found this discussion online:

http://web.mit.edu/edbert/GR/gr1.pdf

The author tell me to verify that eq. (18) follows from (13) and (17).

I'm not getting how that works on the basis of what he's given me so far. Take, for example the first expression.

[itex]\textbf{g}=g_{\mu \nu}\tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\nu[/itex]

where

[itex]g_{\mu \nu} \equiv \textbf{g}(\vec{\textbf{e}}_\mu , \vec{\textbf{e}}_\nu) = \vec{\textbf{e}}_\mu \cdot \vec{\textbf{e}}_\nu[/itex]

From the definitions already given, [itex]\textbf{g}[/itex] is a tensor that maps two vectors into a scalar. [itex]\tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\nu[/itex] is a collection of tensors taking two vectors as operands such that [itex]\tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\nu(\vec{A},\vec{B})=A^\mu B^\nu[/itex]. I can use (12) in the article to contract those values with [itex]\vec{\textbf{e}}_\mu \cdot \vec{\textbf{e}}_\nu[/itex], wave my hands vigorously and claim linearity will allow me to treat that as [itex]\textbf{g}(\vec{A}, \vec{B})[/itex], which demonstrates the assertion.

But I don't see how [itex]\left\langle \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu , \vec{\textbf{e}}_\nu \right\rangle ={\delta^{\mu}}_\nu[/itex] does anything for me with the available definitions.

Am I missing something here?

BTW, is there a tutorial on how to format mathematical expression on the forum?
 
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You need to use formula (6) to evaluate this <animal>

[tex]\tilde{e}^{\mu}\otimes\tilde{e}^{\nu}\left(\vec{e}_{\alpha},\vec{e}_{\beta}\right)[/tex]

twhich takes you to the first formula in (18).

There's a tutorial about the LaTex code in the <Administrative> section of the forums. https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=617567
 
Last edited:
illuminatus33 said:
Take, for example the first expression.

[itex]\textbf{g}=g_{\mu \nu}\tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\nu[/itex]

Write [itex]\textbf{g}[/itex] as a general tensor expanded in terms of the basis [itex]\left\{\tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\nu\right\}[/itex],

[tex]\textbf{g} = a_{\mu \nu} \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^{\nu}.[/tex]
What does [itex]g_{\alpha \beta} = \textbf{g} \left( \textbf{e}_\alpha, \textbf{e}_\beta \right)[/itex] then give you?

[edit]Didn't see dextercioby's similar answer.[/edit]
 
dextercioby said:
You need to use formula (6) to evaluate this <animal>

[tex]\tilde{e}^{\mu}\otimes\tilde{e}^{\nu}\left(\vec{e}_{\alpha},\vec{e}_{\beta}\right)[/tex]

twhich takes you to the first formula in (18).

There's a tutorial about the LaTex code in the <Administrative> section of the forums. https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=617567

[tex]\tilde{e}^{\mu}\otimes\tilde{e}^{\nu}\left(\vec{e}_{\alpha},\vec{e}_{\beta}\right)[/tex] appears to give me [tex]\left\langle \tilde{e}^{\mu}, \vec{e}_{\alpha}\right\rangle \left\langle \tilde{e}^{\nu}, \vec{e}_{\beta}\right\rangle = {\delta^{\mu}}_{\alpha}{\delta^{\nu}}_{\beta}[/tex]

So:

[itex]g_{\mu \nu}{\delta^{\mu}}_{\alpha}{\delta^{\nu}}_{\beta}=g_{\alpha \beta}[/itex]

How does that demonstrate that [itex]g_{\mu \nu}\tilde{\textbf{e}}^\mu \otimes \tilde{\textbf{e}}^\nu(\vec{A},\vec{B})=\textbf{g}(\vec{A},\vec{B})[/itex]? I'll have to think about this a spell. If is express [itex]\vec{A}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{B}[/itex] in terms of the basis, I will get the traditional contraction of two vectors with the metric tensor.
 

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