Understanding the E Field Above a Square Loop

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electric field (E field) above a square loop with side length 'a' at a distance 'z' along the z-axis. Participants explore the mathematical techniques for calculating the E field, particularly focusing on integral substitutions and trigonometric identities. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification related to physics problems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an expression for the E field and expresses confusion about a specific substitution involving trigonometric functions.
  • Another participant suggests a general rule for simplifying square roots using trigonometric substitutions, indicating that if a problem is too complex, it may be best to avoid it.
  • Some participants discuss the practice of solving problems by hand versus using reference materials, with differing opinions on the necessity of mastering integrals for professional competence.
  • A participant reflects on their background in a different career and questions the value of studying advanced calculus texts after having completed a more basic curriculum.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of understanding foundational concepts in physics and mathematics for success in research, suggesting that mastering integrals serves multiple educational purposes.
  • A later reply confirms that the integral substitution is straightforward and provides a specific trigonometric identity related to the substitution process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the necessity of mastering mathematical techniques for physics, with some advocating for thorough practice while others question the relevance of certain advanced studies. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to learning these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate uncertainty about the effectiveness of different educational resources and methods, and there is a lack of consensus on the best practices for mastering integrals and related techniques.

mathnerd15
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this is the E field above a square loop with side=a at distance z on the z axis. by symmetry the Ex, Ey field cancel out. it really kind of bothers me that I can't see this substitution, including the sin(tan^-1(u)) portion. I guess it's an easy technique but I wonder how you get the substitution?

[tex]Ez=\frac{4\lambda z}{4\pi \varepsilon o}\int_{-a/2}^{a/2}\frac{ dx}{(z^2+x^2+a^2/4)^{3/2}}, x=\sqrt{a^2/4+z^2}tanu, dx=\sqrt{a^2/4+z^2}sec^{2}udu, I=\frac{1}{a^2/4+z^2}\int cosudu=\frac{1}{a^2/4+z^2}sinu\therefore Ez=\frac{8\lambda az}{4\pi\epsilon o \sqrt{2a^2+4z^2}z^2+a^2/4}[/tex]thanks!
 
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Thumb rule:
"To remove squares within square roots, use a suitable trig substitution. If stuff is more difficult than that, forget about it"
 
I try to do these by hand- I wonder if some people do all of these by hand?
 
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mathnerd15 said:
I wonder if some people do all of these by hand?

Those who need to learn them, such as students. Those who are professionally competent don't, but at most, picks up a table of integrals. Only those are professionally competent who has learned them.

:smile:
 
I'm not sure if maybe it's better to do a lot of problems out of mathematical and Schaum books. I had another career before this that was completely different than physics/mathematics
I've been looking at Apostol and Hubbard Calculus (introduces manifolds) and I'm not sure if I should study these since I've already done Stewart (problems are easy I know)
 
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Ask yourself:
If lots of the basic tools used within research seems utterly magical to you, because you haven't learned the logic behind them, can you ever succeed as a researcher? There's a reason why an education within physics/math is a fast-track over the evolution of the subjects, ordered in a pedagogically optimal way.
Alternatively: Why should anyone want to employ you, unless you have a proven ability to understand and master previous areas of research?

-------------------------------
Thus, the function behind drilling students with such as nasty integrals is at least three-fold:
To hone the mind of the student, and familiarize him with the technical language, along with being a quality control of the student.
 
thanks, it's not a difficult substitution.

so the integral substitution works well with the tan^2+1 term reducing it to cosu and you just substitute back in for u and solve,
[tex]sin(arctan(\frac{x}{(a^2/4+z^2)^{1/2}}))=\frac{x}{(a^2/4+x^2+z^2)^{1/2}}[/tex]
 
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