Understanding the Mass Defect in Nuclei

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of mass defect in atomic nuclei, exploring the reasons behind the mass difference between a nucleus and its constituent nucleons. Participants examine the implications of binding energy, internal energy changes, and the nature of energy release during nuclear reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a mass defect occurs when a less stable nucleus converts to a more stable one, suggesting that energy is released in the process.
  • There is a discussion about whether the energy released during nuclear binding is termed as mass defect due to the mass of the combined nucleus being less than the sum of its parts.
  • One participant questions whether energy changes in neutrons always result in photon emission or if other particles can be emitted as well.
  • Another participant explains that the mass of particles is linked to their internal energy and that energy differences can lead to the emission of photons or potentially other particles, depending on the energy involved.
  • There is clarification that the binding energy of the deuteron is sufficient to produce electron-positron pairs under certain conditions.
  • Participants note that in nuclear reactions, gamma rays are commonly emitted, and in specific fusion processes, other particles like positrons can be produced.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various views on the nature of energy release and the terminology surrounding mass defect. There is no clear consensus on whether all energy changes lead to photon emission or if other particles may also be produced, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the stability of certain nucleon configurations, such as the stability of di-protons and di-neutrons, which are noted to be unstable. The conversation also touches on the complexities of particle interactions and energy transformations without resolving these nuances.

jd12345
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Why is there a mass defect in the nucleus?

I think about mass defect in this way - A comparatively unstable nucleus( i.e. low binding energy) converts to a stabel nucleus( high binding energy)

Intially internal energy was U1 and then it became U2.
So when it converts then some energy should be released which should have a value
U1 - U2


Eg:- two protons far apart have some potential energy, when they get closer potential energy decreases so the lost energy is seen as kinetic energy right?

Similarly when a neutron converts to another why the change in internal energy is seen as a mass defect and not kinetic energy or something else?
 
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jd12345 said:
Eg:- two protons far apart have some potential energy, when they get closer potential energy decreases so the lost energy is seen as kinetic energy right?

There are other places the energy can go (light can be emitted, etc), but yes what you have described is basically true. You seem to understand what is going on, so is your question just about the terminology? Why call it a mass defect? Well it is a sensible name, I mean the mass of the combined nucleus is less than the mass of its component parts, so some mass has vanished. It is just the conventional terminology though; one could imagine alternatives.
 
Ok so let me see if i get this right :- In case of neutrons, when its (internal)energy changes it compensates that lost energy by reducing its mass and releasing energy(photons) right?

So does it always emit photons or can it emit some other particles too?
 
remark: two protons (di-proton) or two neutrons (di-neutron) are not stable bound states; you need a proton and a neutron (deuteron)
 
It's possibly easier to think of (eg) a free proton and a neutron as each having zero potential energy, but if they fuse to form a deuteron they then gain negative potential energy as a result of the binding of the (strong) nuclear force. When they fuse, this extra energy is released, eg as a gamma ray.

The result is that the combined mass of the deuteron (E/c2) is less that the sum of those of the free particles, because its total energy is lower. It is convenient to quantify the negative binding energy using the difference between the mass of the combined nucleus and the sum of the individual nucleons' free masses, as these masses are the easiest quantities we can measure. Hence the concept of mass defect.
 
jd12345 said:
Ok so let me see if i get this right :- In case of neutrons, when its (internal)energy changes it compensates that lost energy by reducing its mass and releasing energy(photons) right?

So does it always emit photons or can it emit some other particles too?

Err sort of. The mass of these particles is not actually separate from their internal energy. Their mass is associated intimately with the configuration of the quark and gluon fields that they are made up of, which is what I expect you mean by their internal energy. When these things get close to each other the quark and gluon fields get reconfigured, and if they end up in a lower energy state, then the system has less mass, E=mc^2 and all that. The energy has to go somewhere though, so it goes into some other field, i.e. some photons get produced.

I have not studied at all what happens when bound states form, so I don't know exactly what happens, but if the energy difference is large enough to create particles other than photons I see little reason why they should not be produced sometimes. I think the energy difference would not be enough to allow much more than electron-positron pairs to be produced though. Looking at wikipedia, it says the deuteron binding energy is 2.2 MeV, which indeed is enough to produce a couple of electron-positron pairs (1.022 MeV needed each pair), but nothing else.
 
jd12345 said:
Ok so let me see if i get this right :- In case of neutrons, when its (internal)energy changes it compensates that lost energy by reducing its mass and releasing energy(photons) right?

So does it always emit photons or can it emit some other particles too?

kurros said:
Err sort of. The mass of these particles is not actually separate from their internal energy. Their mass is associated intimately with the configuration of the quark and gluon fields that they are made up of, which is what I expect you mean by their internal energy. When these things get close to each other the quark and gluon fields get reconfigured, and if they end up in a lower energy state, then the system has less mass, E=mc^2 and all that. The energy has to go somewhere though, so it goes into some other field, i.e. some photons get produced.

I have not studied at all what happens when bound states form, so I don't know exactly what happens, but if the energy difference is large enough to create particles other than photons I see little reason why they should not be produced sometimes. I think the energy difference would not be enough to allow much more than electron-positron pairs to be produced though. Looking at wikipedia, it says the deuteron binding energy is 2.2 MeV, which indeed is enough to produce a couple of electron-positron pairs (1.022 MeV needed each pair), but nothing else.
When nuclei absorb neutrons, it is most often that gamma rays (photons) are emitted. The resulting nuclide may emit a beta particle, but usually the initial energy is emitted as a gamma ray.

In the case of two protons 'fusing', e.g., in the p-p fusion chain of stars, a positron is emitted in conjunction with the transformation of a proton (uud) into a neutron (udd) - or rather the transformation of an u (up quark) to a d (down quark).

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/qrkdec.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/quark.html#c3
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/proton.html#c4
 

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