Understanding the Proof of the Jacobian

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    Jacobian Proof
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a specific part of the proof of the Jacobian, particularly the derivation of vectors that form a parallelogram in the context of parametrizing a surface. The focus is on the mathematical reasoning and notation involved in the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation of two vectors used to form a parallelogram in the proof, suggesting it relates to partial differentials.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify by explaining the parametrization of the surface and how the area of the rectangle in the domain relates to the parallelogram formed by specific vectors derived from the parametrization.
  • A third participant questions the premise of asking for a proof of the Jacobian, suggesting that it is a number associated with a matrix rather than a concept that can be proven in the traditional sense.
  • One participant reiterates the explanation provided, indicating improved understanding and expressing gratitude for the clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the nature of the Jacobian as a concept, with one participant questioning the validity of asking for a proof. However, there is agreement among some participants on the technical details of the proof and the vectors involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights some confusion regarding notation and the interpretation of the Jacobian in the context of the proof, indicating potential limitations in understanding the underlying concepts.

leospyder
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Can someone explain to me this part of the proof of the jacobian?

Idea of the Proof

As usual, we cut S up into tiny rectangles so that the image under T of each rectangle is a parallelogram.



We need to find the area of the parallelogram. Considering differentials, we have

T(u + Du,v) @ T(u,v) + (xuDu,yuDu)

T(u,v + Dv) @ T(u,v) + (xvDv,yvDv)


Thus the two vectors that make the parallelogram are

P = guDu i + huDu j

Q = gvDv i + hvDv j

I don't know what they're talking about...I can follow the rest (the cross product bla bla bla bla bla) but I don't know how they're getting these two vectors...I figured it has something to do with partial differentials but I am still confused. If anyone could provide any insight Id be appreciative. :eek:
 
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The notation is a bit screwy, but here's what I think they're doing.

So suppose the surface is parametrised by \vec T(u,v).
Take a small rectangle in the domain with dimensions \Delta u, \Delta v, the bottom left corner being the point (u_0,v_0).
The image of this rectangle is a patch of area, which can be approximated by the parallelogram formed by the vectors:

\vec T(u_0+\Delta u,v_0)-\vec T(u_0,v_0)
and
\vec T(u_,v_0+\Delta v)-\vec T(u_0,v_0) (a picture helps here).

These vectors are in turn approximated by
\frac{\partial}{\partial u}\vec T(u_0,v_0)\Delta u
and
\frac{\partial}{\partial v}\vec T(u_0,v_0)\Delta v
respectively.

So area patch is about |\vec T_u \times \vec T_v|\Delta u \Delta v and you can figure out the rest.

Hope that helps.
 
Last edited:
It might help (me, anyways) if you would say what you're trying to prove. The Jacobian is a number associated with a matrix; it doesn't make any more sense to ask about a proof of the Jacobian than it does to ask about a proof of the number 2.
 
Galileo said:
The notation is a bit screwy, but here's what I think they're doing.
So suppose the surface is parametrised by \vec T(u,v).
Take a small rectangle in the domain with dimensions \Delta u, \Delta v, the bottom left corner being the point (u_0,v_0).
The image of this rectangle is a patch of area, which can be approximated by the parallelogram formed by the vectors:
\vec T(u_0+\Delta u,v_0)-\vec T(u_0,v_0)
and
\vec T(u_,v_0+\Delta v)-\vec T(u_0,v_0) (a picture helps here).
These vectors are in turn approximated by
\frac{\partial}{\partial u}\vec T(u_0,v_0)\Delta u
and
\frac{\partial}{\partial v}\vec T(u_0,v_0)\Delta v
respectively.
So area patch is about |\vec T_u \times \vec T_v|\Delta u \Delta v and you can figure out the rest.
Hope that helps.

Oh, I see it better now. THanks a lot, just wanted to say that before I go to bed. If i need further clarification Ill post the fool proof. THakns a lot guys
 

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