Understanding Time in a Moving Frame: Observer's Experiment with Egg Timers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an observer's experiment involving egg timers in a moving spaceship to explore the concept of time in different frames of reference. Participants examine how the timing of flashes emitted by the egg timers varies between a stationary observer on Earth and those in the moving frame of the spaceship. The scope includes theoretical implications of time dilation and the relativity of simultaneity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the time between flashes from the moving egg timer (ET1) will be less than that from stationary timers (ET2-ET4), suggesting that time in the moving frame is faster.
  • Others argue that after achieving a constant velocity, no forces act on the sand grains, which may affect their fall.
  • A participant suggests replacing the sand with iron and using magnets, claiming the results would remain consistent.
  • There is a question about the order of flash periods from the timers, with some proposing that ET1 will have the smallest period.
  • Some participants express confusion about whether the observer is timing when the flashes reach them or using "clone" observers in the moving frame.
  • One participant asserts that only ET3 works, while others challenge this claim and seek clarification.
  • There is a discussion about whether time in the moving frame can be both faster and slower than in the stationary frame, with some asserting that it is always slower.
  • Participants discuss the implications of time dilation, noting that the perception of time can vary depending on the chosen frame of reference.
  • One participant suggests that the setup is overly complicated and could be simplified to just accurate clocks emitting light flashes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the timing of flashes and the implications of time dilation. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing interpretations of the experiment and its outcomes.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include assumptions about the effects of gravity on the egg timers, the role of light travel time in observations, and the complexity of the experimental setup. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of relativistic effects based on different frames of reference.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring concepts of time dilation, relativity, and the behavior of systems in different inertial frames, particularly in the context of physics and engineering.

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  • #32
Ross Arden said:
the answer is very simple will the observer observe
ET1 < ET3
ET1 < ET4
ET4 = ET3
ET2 > ET4

yes/no
The answer is simple but the question isn’t well enough specified to get any answer. You have tons of unnecessary details (mechanism of clocks, colors of lights etc) and you omit some necessary details. For example: what are these ET numbers supposed to represent? Are they the times between the corresponding flashes being received according to an Earth observer or a rocket observer, or are they the times between the flashes being emitted according to an Earth observer or a rocket observer, or something else?

The reason you are not getting a straightforward answer is because your question does not allow a straightforward answer. Relativity does not depend on the clock mechanism, so don’t specify it, just use a generic “accurate clock”. Any experiment depends on exactly what is measured, so specify what ET1 is. There is a difference between coordinate and proper times, so if possible specify that as well or ask for help determining it. In relativity many quantities are frame variant, so specify which reference frame they are determined in.
 
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  • #33
Ross Arden said:
I would like a second opinion. Do others agree with this ?

One the things you'll notice is that people will correct each others' errors on this forum. If someone disagrees with an answer you receive, you will see that disagreement right away and it will get corrected.
 
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  • #34
A lack of disagreement could have other causes. In this case some people (e.g. me) don’t feel that the problem is well enough specified to even have a clear answer. The question is not well enough specified for me to either agree or disagree with @Nugatory (although on good questions we usually agree historically)
 
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