Unfair Education System: Exam Results Don't Reflect Efforts

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the perceived unfairness of the education system, particularly regarding exam results that do not accurately reflect students' efforts. A civil engineering student expressed frustration after achieving only a 70% score despite extensive preparation, while peers who crammed last-minute scored higher. The conversation highlights the disparity between genuine understanding of material and the ability to pass exams, emphasizing that grades may not truly represent a student's knowledge or future job performance.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of civil engineering concepts, particularly related to PH Waste.
  • Familiarity with effective study techniques, including mind mapping and reviewing past exam papers.
  • Knowledge of the impact of educational assessments on career opportunities.
  • Awareness of the differences between rote learning and comprehensive understanding of subjects.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research effective study strategies for engineering exams, focusing on balancing content coverage and exam preparation.
  • Explore the implications of grading systems on student learning and job readiness.
  • Investigate the role of past exam papers in preparing for future assessments.
  • Learn about educational reforms aimed at improving assessment fairness and accuracy in reflecting student knowledge.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for civil engineering students, educators, and academic administrators interested in understanding the challenges of exam preparation and the implications of grading on student success and employability.

AshNZ
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This is so unfair!

I had my PH Waste (civil engineering) exam yesterday. I was really worried about this subject so I started my revision early. I spent most time on this before the exams (got 90% in one assignment I worked hard on) Then I spent two days in the study week and went through a 200 page book highlighting important points and taking endless notes (mind maps, brainstorms - you name it!). I also went over past 5-6 years exam papers but made a point to not to focus on them for too much (surely they won't repeat the same questions as last few years). Boy, was I wrong? The exam papers was 95% same as 2008 paper! As a result of this, the guys who ONLY went through last 1-2 exam papers the night before did a better job than I did. My mistake was to be wanting to cover everything done in class and be diverse and through in my revision. I will still probably get around 70% but the guys who studied the night before reckon they will get 85+ (when I told them I will get around 70 they were like, "WHAT?!?" because they know I worked hard on it. What a shame. I don't have anything against those guys but in general I do feel that the education system is totally screwed.

Phew I feel better now :P
 
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yeah, but you will have a much better grasp of the subject than them. they learned simply to pass the exam.

see whos laughing when they can't hold a job because they don't have a clue what they're supposed to be doing!
 


AshNZ said:
I had my PH Waste (civil engineering) exam yesterday. I was really worried about this subject so I started my revision early. I spent most time on this before the exams (got 90% in one assignment I worked hard on) Then I spent two days in the study week and went through a 200 page book highlighting important points and taking endless notes (mind maps, brainstorms - you name it!). I also went over past 5-6 years exam papers but made a point to not to focus on them for too much (surely they won't repeat the same questions as last few years). Boy, was I wrong? The exam papers was 95% same as 2008 paper! As a result of this, the guys who ONLY went through last 1-2 exam papers the night before did a better job than I did. My mistake was to be wanting to cover everything done in class and be diverse and through in my revision. I will still probably get around 70% but the guys who studied the night before reckon they will get 85+ (when I told them I will get around 70 they were like, "WHAT?!?" because they know I worked hard on it. What a shame. I don't have anything against those guys but in general I do feel that the education system is totally screwed.

Phew I feel better now :P

looks like a heavy load:-p

jarednjames said:
yeah, but you will have a much better grasp of the subject than them. they learned simply to pass the exam.

see whos laughing when they can't hold a job because they don't have a clue what they're supposed to be doing!

exactly, you didn’t waste your time by doing such a tremendous hard work, but I must say, you should be reasonable [cause you know at the end your grades do reflect how good you are] so you should focus on the main points of your subject and study from the references your professor told you, to get the grades, but you still can do further reading in your free time for a better understanding and good knowledge.
 


True drizzle, but as I also said, it all comes down to doing a job. Having good grades may get you hired first, but it doesn't mean you keep the job. If you don't have a clue, you ain't going to be there long.
 


jarednjames said:
True drizzle, but as I also said, it all comes down to doing a job. Having good grades may get you hired first, but it doesn't mean you keep the job. If you don't have a clue, you ain't going to be there long.

I didn't say it's wrong, but if he hasn't got the grades would he get hired in the first place:wink:
 


drizzle said:
I didn't say it's wrong, but if he hasn't got the grades would he get hired in the first place:wink:

You never know, I only have average grades but I beat a bunch of others from my uni with perfect grades getting my placement. As long as he has good experience, and can show his knowledge, he should be fine.

However, once the companies have expended the useless students who simply learn to pass, they're bound to swing his way.
 


jarednjames said:
You never know, I only have average grades but I beat a bunch of others from my uni with perfect grades getting my placement. As long as he has good experience, and can show his knowledge, he should be fine.

However, once the companies have expended the useless students who simply learn to pass, they're bound to swing his way.

that's a 50 50 chance, you wouldn't go through this whole education process to end up with a chance you may have, again it's not that I don't agree with you he still have to work hard to get the knowledge and to keep the job.
 


50 50, did you just make that number up? Since when does you never know mean 50 50, you never know if it will definitely rain tomorrow, but given the weather reports you can certainly swing your odds of guessing it right. If you don't know what to do there's a 100% chance you lose the job. If you can blag it or know the stuff there is a better chance of you keeping the job, can't put a figure on it, varies by person and job. If you go through the whole education process and only study the work to pass the exams, you won't have a good strong knowledge to go through life with, and have wasted your time in uni. If you do all the work and study the material put in front of you then you should be able to do well in the exams and get on with a job later on in life well.
 
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jarednjames said:
...If you do all the work and study the material put in front of you then you should be able to do well in the exams and get on with a job later on in life well.

that's right if you were studying most of your time, not just before the exams this will distract your mind more than letting you concentrate on the material you're studying, so it basically depends on the person himself and when/how he studied.
 
  • #10


You did read he did the past exam papers, and he went through his notes highlighting important things. As you would with exam revision, unless you are only studying to pass the exam.

If you work hard all the way up to the exams you wouldn't have to do last minute cramming and the exam papers would only aid your revision.
 
  • #11


Seems like your friend knows how to study and you don't. Hopefully you won't make that dumb mistake twice.
 
  • #12


jarednjames said:
You did read he did the past exam papers, and he went through his notes highlighting important things. As you would with exam revision, unless you are only studying to pass the exam.

If you work hard all the way up to the exams you wouldn't have to do last minute cramming and the exam papers would only aid your revision.

so are you supporting the guy now or criticizing him, he should do well in his exams cause he just follows what you point out here:biggrin:
 
  • #13


What? I say you should work hard all the time throughout the course, not cram last minute and hope for the best.

Your posts haven't made much sense so far but this one really pushes it.

Re-read his post, and understand it.
 
  • #14


jarednjames said:
What? I say you should work hard all the time throughout the course, not cram last minute and hope for the best.


did I say something different than that?

Your posts haven't made much sense so far but this one really pushes it.

Re-read his post, and understand it.
hey there, I do understant his post but what I don't understand here is your point, are you with/against having good grades?! and is there anything that I said you dissagree with?!
 
  • #15


Nothing wrong with good grades, what I hate is people who simply study to pass them (the people he has mentioned).

"[cause you know at the end your grades do reflect how good you are]" - This statement I disagree with. They only show you answered the paper correctly. Not that you truly understand the work.

I for one am rubbish at exams, always panic and mess them up regardless of how much work I do. But practically and when faced with a real life situation I'm much better.

As I said, a person who only learns to pass the exams is highly unlikely to hold a job very long. Regardless of the grades they hold. The true measure of a persons abilities and knowledge are how good they are at their job.
 
  • #16


jarednjames said:
Nothing wrong with good grades, what I hate is people who simply study to pass them (the people he has mentioned).

"[cause you know at the end your grades do reflect how good you are]" - This statement I disagree with. They only show you answered the paper correctly. Not that you truly understand the work.

I for one am rubbish at exams, always panic and mess them up regardless of how much work I do. But practically and when faced with a real life situation I'm much better.

As I said, a person who only learns to pass the exams is highly unlikely to hold a job very long. Regardless of the grades they hold. The true measure of a persons abilities and knowledge are how good they are at their job.

Let me rock your world. Do you think you have all the knowledge to do whatever job you are hired for?

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the answer is no. So, the company want's someone that can find the answer very quickly while not lingering on stuff that's not important/relevant to getting the task done.

In this regard, the OP failed miserably and has a lot to learn from this guy you detest so much. This guy will be getting the promotion in the real world (not you).

I used to think like you do, until I had to do real work. Then you wise up quickly and realize how to learn a lot more efficiently.

Studying the way he did was a waste of time.
 
  • #17


I know you won't know everything in a job, but to have a sound knowledge going into it will give you a much better standing at keeping the job than someone who can just about remember the examples on the exam papers they learnt. Yes, the OP did fail in the sense all his work led to a poorer result.
 
  • #18


Cyrus said:
In this regard, the OP failed miserably and has a lot to learn from this guy you detest so much.

What happens to the "other guy" when the exam paper doesn't predominantly contain last years' questions, but instead contains things he's never seen before?
 
  • #19


Exactly, it's a very risky thing to do. When it works you get a fantastic result, but when it doesn't you can fail miserably.
 
  • #20


I'm satisfied the way I revised to be honest. If I had to sit this exam all over again, not knowing what is going to come in the exam, I will revise the way I did this time.

However I do not think it was not fair for the lecturer (or whoever set the paper) to give us a paper like this. He was simply too lazy to come up with different questions so he went with the past ones which is quite disappointing. Its understandable if 3-4 questions are repeated but not the whole bloody paper. I'm not exaggerating but every single single question in that exam was asked in either 2008 or 2007's exam. He didn't even bother going back to 2005 or 2006 paper!

Hopefully the employers understand what really goes on in the education system and I hope they realize that grades are not an accurate representation of the ability or knowledge (I will probably get a B or B+ which isn't all that bad either ;) ).
 
  • #21


Well AshNZ, there are only so many questions they can come up with so they do get repeated, usually its every three years you will see a similar question come up. Employers generally look at grades and experience. The more experience you get the better. Do a placement.
 
  • #22


jarednjames said:
Exactly, it's a very risky thing to do. When it works you get a fantastic result, but when it doesn't you can fail miserably.

The best way to study, at least for me, was to do a bit of both. In the weeks before the exam, I would study the material from the course, coursework sheets etc.., then in the couple of days before the exam I would do the last three or four years exams, doing the previous years exam the night before. That way, you can do well if the exam questions are repeated from previous years since not only have you seen them before but you understand them, but you can also answer the questions that are new, or slightly different to past exam questions. Not saying this is the way to study, but it's what worked for me.
 
  • #23


cristo said:
The best way to study, at least for me, was to do a bit of both. In the weeks before the exam, I would study the material from the course, coursework sheets etc.., then in the couple of days before the exam I would do the last three or four years exams, doing the previous years exam the night before. That way, you can do well if the exam questions are repeated from previous years since not only have you seen them before but you understand them, but you can also answer the questions that are new, or slightly different to past exam questions. Not saying this is the way to study, but it's what worked for me.

Something like me, but I look at the last few years papers over the last few days to give me an idea what to expect.
 
  • #24


AshNZ said:
I had my PH Waste (civil engineering) exam yesterday. I was really worried about this subject so I started my revision early. I spent most time on this before the exams (got 90% in one assignment I worked hard on) Then I spent two days in the study week and went through a 200 page book highlighting important points and taking endless notes (mind maps, brainstorms - you name it!).

Looks like this was the first time you were going through the book?
 
  • #25


AshNZ said:
I had my PH Waste (civil engineering) exam yesterday. I was really worried about this subject so I started my revision early. I spent most time on this before the exams (got 90% in one assignment I worked hard on) Then I spent two days in the study week and went through a 200 page book highlighting important points and taking endless notes (mind maps, brainstorms - you name it!). I also went over past 5-6 years exam papers but made a point to not to focus on them for too much (surely they won't repeat the same questions as last few years). Boy, was I wrong? The exam papers was 95% same as 2008 paper! As a result of this, the guys who ONLY went through last 1-2 exam papers the night before did a better job than I did. My mistake was to be wanting to cover everything done in class and be diverse and through in my revision. I will still probably get around 70% but the guys who studied the night before reckon they will get 85+ (when I told them I will get around 70 they were like, "WHAT?!?" because they know I worked hard on it. What a shame. I don't have anything against those guys but in general I do feel that the education system is totally screwed.

Phew I feel better now :P

Wow , its so terrible Can i ask You a question , which country are you (if you do not min)
In my country also question gets repeated, often question gets leaked ,
I never new how to score,but I always wished I could get score as high
 
  • #26


You might want to reconsider your approach to studying. The fact of the matter is that if you had done a good job studying, you wouldn't have needed to review an old exam to do well, you should have been able to get the high marks without benefit of old exams being passed around.

Those who seemed to put in less time studying may simply have been more focused and efficient in their studying, not really learning less.

I'll point out where there are problems with the approach taken, as you've described it, so you can improve your study skills for future classes.

AshNZ said:
Then I spent two days in the study week and went through a 200 page book highlighting important points and taking endless notes (mind maps, brainstorms - you name it!).
Two days going through 200 pages with highlighting and note-taking? First, that is too much to be trying to cram in in only 2 days. Highlighting is not an effective way of studying; it's entirely passive and doesn't require anything you're reading to be processed by your brain in any way that is going to help you understand and remember it. The things you describe being done in 2 days of the last week of studying are things you should have done as the chapters were assigned, so that by the time you are getting around to studying, you could be thinking about the material at a higher level, processing it, applying it, and importantly, remembering it without having the book open.

I also went over past 5-6 years exam papers but made a point to not to focus on them for too much (surely they won't repeat the same questions as last few years).
Why would you not use the old exams? No, you wouldn't necessarily expect the exams to be identical, especially if old copies are released, but they are a great study tool that you dismissed for some reason. How else do you test your knowledge without testing yourself? It sounds like you probably just looked at the exams, read the answers, and put them aside. That's not an effective way of using old exams for studying. You should have sat down and taken each and every one of them as if you were taking the exam. They give you an idea of the topics your professors think are important (usually they think they are important for a reason, such as they are common things you'll encounter when you actually need to use the course material later), and how well you know them. If you sit down and work through each problem, you'll identify the areas that you still don't know well. Got the wrong answer? Got stuck on one? Focus on relearning those topics. The ones you get right, okay, you know you know those and can check them off and not waste time re-reading those notes and doing a lot of problems in those chapters.

Boy, was I wrong? The exam papers was 95% same as 2008 paper! As a result of this, the guys who ONLY went through last 1-2 exam papers the night before did a better job than I did.
Honestly, if they didn't know the subject well already, even reviewing the same exact exam the night before wouldn't have helped much, because they wouldn't have understood it all enough to remember how to do it. Those who were only reviewing a few exams the night before may have been keeping up with their studying all along, and already understood the material, so could relax and just review some old exams to confirm they were comfortable with the material already.

My mistake was to be wanting to cover everything done in class and be diverse and through in my revision.
The mistake was to be doing this on the week of the exam. And this also sounds like you're not listening and taking notes carefully in lecture either. Professors give a LOT of hints about the topics they think are most important for you to know, and these are the things they will test you on. They don't just pick random things for testing, they pick the things they think are most important to know if you are going to be successful in a career that uses content from that course. As you're taking notes in class, don't just transcribe what the lecturer is saying, really listen. If they repeat something 3 times, or their voice gets louder, or they say something like, "this is really important," or "you're going to see this over and over," then put a star next to it in your notes (or some other mark that tells you this was emphasized) and when you study, make sure you know that!

I will still probably get around 70% but the guys who studied the night before reckon they will get 85+ (when I told them I will get around 70 they were like, "WHAT?!?" because they know I worked hard on it. What a shame. I don't have anything against those guys but in general I do feel that the education system is totally screwed.
Again, you don't really know that time spent studying on the week of exams is reflective of the amount of knowledge or a lack of knowledge. There are also plenty of people who simply don't brag about how much they've been studying. They may not have studied much the week before because they already felt confident in what they had learned during the course.

So, no, it's not unfair. It doesn't feel good to get a worse grade than you thought you were going to get, but when that happens, that means it's time to seriously evaluate your approach to studying and learn from your mistakes so you don't repeat it again in other classes.
 
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  • #27


Please AshNZ , don't panic yourself thinking with grades now ,past is past
 
  • #28


I think this should be a sticky thread in the academic guidance forum, Moonbear really hit the point and many students can get use of these advices.

note: you can delete other blah blah posts and just leave Moonbears and the OPs posts :biggrin:
 
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  • #29


Wow, you guys really take your studying seriously. When I was an undergrad I never studied for an exam except maybe the finals. Its of course a different story now that I'm a grad student, but as an undergrad I always focused on the practical and application side of stuff instead of studying notes and it really payed off (literally). I only received average grades in most classes but in the end grades really don't mean anything.
 
  • #30


Topher925 said:
I only received average grades in most classes but in the end grades really don't mean anything.

That's some fantastic advice for students :rolleyes:.

Anyway, this probably depends where in the world you are. Whilst in your university it may be true that grades mean "nothing", this is certainly not true for the majority of the universities in the world. For example, where I'm from, your grad school application will not even be looked at if you have "only average grades."

In fact (and I know I'm going to get a lot of harsh words for this), I think this lack of (exam) studying may be endemic to the US. From what I can gather, a grade for a certain course in the US is made up of several papers, midterm tests, quizzes on top of the final exam. Whereas, here in the UK (at least in the universities I'm familiar with) grades for courses are predominantly given for a final exam only. The pure fact that exams are worth nearly 100% of your degree means that you really need to learn how to study, and will not get away with cramming for a few small tests throughout the year.

From what I can tell (and I do know some Americans!) US students are a lot less able to study fully for an exam in the weeks upto it, and rely on a day or so's studying. Obviously, if you have a entire semester's (and sometimes year's) work to study, it will not suffice to cram a day or so before the exam. This, I guess, explains the comments like that of Topher.

Regardless, given the OP's username, I'm going to guess s/he isn't from the US.
 
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