Unitary and self-adjoint operators

  • Thread starter Thread starter the_kid
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Operators
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of unitary operators and self-adjoint operators in the context of linear maps. The original poster is tasked with demonstrating that a linear map U, defined as U=e^iA, is unitary if A is self-adjoint, and to provide a counterexample where U remains unitary even if A is not self-adjoint.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the relationship between U and A, questioning what conditions must hold for U to be unitary. There is a focus on finding a non-self-adjoint matrix A that still results in U being unitary. Some participants discuss the properties of the exponential of matrices and the conditions under which certain matrix operations hold.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing thoughts on potential examples and properties of matrices. There is a recognition of the need to find specific matrices that satisfy the conditions discussed, and some participants express uncertainty about their calculations or the implications of their findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the challenge of finding suitable matrices and the complexity of calculations involved. There is also a reference to the ladder operator in quantum mechanics as a potential example, indicating a connection to broader concepts in the subject area.

the_kid
Messages
114
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Let U and A be two linear maps related by U=e^iA. Show that U is unitary if A is self-adjoint. Give a counterexample to show that U can be unitary if A is not self-adjoint.


Homework Equations


Self-adjoint: A*=A


The Attempt at a Solution


OK, so I had no problem with the first part. It's easy to show that U dagger=U inverse. However, I'm having some trouble coming up with a counter example for the second part. I tried something anti-Hermitian, but that just shows that U is self-adjoint, not that it is unitary.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Write out what it means that UU^*=I=U^*U. What could go wrong?
 
Wait. What do you mean "what could go wrong"? I need to show that U can be unitary even if A isn't self-adjoint by way of an example.
 
the_kid said:
Wait. What do you mean "what could go wrong"? I need to show that U can be unitary even if A isn't self-adjoint by way of an example.

I didn't phrase that the best way as I could.

So, indeed, you need to find a non-self-adjoint matrix A such that U=e^{iA} is unitary. So, assume that U is unitary, then UU^*=I=U^*U. What does that mean for A??
 
micromass said:
I didn't phrase that the best way as I could.

So, indeed, you need to find a non-self-adjoint matrix A such that U=e^{iA} is unitary. So, assume that U is unitary, then UU^*=I=U^*U. What does that mean for A??

UU^*=(e^{iA})(e^{iA})^+=(e^{iA})^+(e^{iA})=U^*U

I feel like this is really simple; I wonder why I'm not seeing it.
 
the_kid said:
UU^*=(e^{iA})(e^{iA})^+=(e^{iA})^+(e^{iA})=U^*U

I feel like this is really simple; I wonder why I'm not seeing it.

OK, so you want UU^*=I=UU^*. You indeed say that this is the same as

(e^{iA})(e^{iA})^+=I=(e^{iA})^+(e^{iA})

Now, do you know what (e^{iA})^+ is?? Can you write it in another way??
 
micromass said:
OK, so you want UU^*=I=UU^*. You indeed say that this is the same as

(e^{iA})(e^{iA})^+=I=(e^{iA})^+(e^{iA})

Now, do you know what (e^{iA})^+ is?? Can you write it in another way??

(e^{iA})^+=e^{-iA^+}
 
OK, so now you have

e^{iA}e^{-iA^+}=I=e^{-iA^+}e^{iA}

Now, what happens if you use e^{A+B}=e^A e^B?? (I know the rule isn't always valid for matrices, but let's assume AA^+=A^+A, in that case the rule is valid).
 
micromass said:
OK, so now you have

e^{iA}e^{-iA^+}=I=e^{-iA^+}e^{iA}

Now, what happens if you use e^{A+B}=e^A e^B?? (I know the rule isn't always valid for matrices, but let's assume AA^+=A^+A, in that case the rule is valid).

You get e^{i(-A^++A)}=I=e^{i(A-A^+)}.
 
  • #10
OK, so what did we find now? We found out that if A isn't self-adjoint, then there are two ways that e^{iA} could still be unitary.

Either, B=A+A^+ is a matrix such that e^{iB}=I.
Or AA^+\neq A^+A.

One of those two things must hold for A.

Let's focus on the second one, can you find a matrix such that AA^+\neq A^+A.
 
  • #11
micromass said:
OK, so what did we find now? We found out that if A isn't self-adjoint, then there are two ways that e^{iA} could still be unitary.

Either, B=A+A^+ is a matrix such that e^{iB}=I.
Or AA^+\neq A^+A.

One of those two things must hold for A.

Let's focus on the second one, can you find a matrix such that AA^+\neq A^+A.

I think I can come up with a matrix, but can't we just treat these as operators, too? How about the ladder operator in QM. It is non-Hermitian; i.e. AA^+\neq A^+A.
 
  • #12
the_kid said:
I think I can come up with a matrix, but can't we just treat these as operators, too? How about the ladder operator in QM. It is non-Hermitian; i.e. AA^+\neq A^+A.

The condition AA^+=A^+A is known as "normal".
But anyway, what do you mean with the ladder operator??
Matrices are fine examples of operators. Matrices are exactly the operators on a finite dimensional space. So any counterexamples you find as matrices will be a counterexample of operators.
 
  • #13
micromass said:
The condition AA^+=A^+A is known as "normal".
But anyway, what do you mean with the ladder operator??
Matrices are fine examples of operators. Matrices are exactly the operators on a finite dimensional space. So any counterexamples you find as matrices will be a counterexample of operators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_harmonic_oscillator#Ladder_operator_method

I am terrible at Latex, so I'm just linking to Wikipedia. I think this makes sense, right?
 
  • #14
the_kid said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_harmonic_oscillator#Ladder_operator_method

I am terrible at Latex, so I'm just linking to Wikipedia. I think this makes sense, right?

Oh, those. I call them shift operators :smile:

Anyway, maybe those ladder operators work, but for that you got to calculate e^{iA} and that seems a little tedious.
The easiest calculations are, in my opinion, with matrices.
 
  • #15
micromass said:
Oh, those. I call them shift operators :smile:

Anyway, maybe those ladder operators work, but for that you got to calculate e^{iA} and that seems a little tedious.
The easiest calculations are, in my opinion, with matrices.

OK, how about let A=({2,3}, {-2,1})? I think that works.
 
  • #16
the_kid said:
OK, how about let A=({2,3}, {-2,1})? I think that works.

OK, but the calculations are a bit annoying. Can't we find a matrix whose exponential can easily be calculated? For example, try a nilpotent matrix.
 
  • #17
micromass said:
OK, but the calculations are a bit annoying. Can't we find a matrix whose exponential can easily be calculated? For example, try a nilpotent matrix.

OK, how about ({0,1}, {0,0})?
 
  • #18
the_kid said:
OK, how about ({0,1}, {0,0})?

Yes, try that one! What do you get?
 
  • #19
micromass said:
Yes, try that one! What do you get?

You get A dagger does not commute with A, as we wanted. What else do I need to show?
 
  • #20
What do I need to show from there?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K