Upper end of nucleon overtones

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence and properties of higher energy nucleon resonances, particularly focusing on the upper end of nucleon overtones. Participants explore theoretical possibilities, experimental challenges, and the classification of resonances based on their observed properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that while higher energy resonances are theoretically possible, their detection is complicated by factors such as short lifetimes and large widths, which may obscure their existence.
  • One participant suggests that the current limits on resonance discovery may be primarily due to funding and technological constraints rather than intrinsic physical limitations.
  • Another participant questions the classification of certain resonances, specifically why some are rated with fewer stars and what criteria are used to determine their existence and properties.
  • Concerns are raised about the arbitrary nature of classifying resonances as certain or likely based on their star ratings, with a call for more experimental evidence to elevate the status of two-star resonances.
  • References to past presentations and reviews are made to highlight skepticism regarding the existence of lower-rated resonances and the need for caution in interpreting experimental results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of views, with some agreeing on the theoretical possibility of higher resonances while others emphasize the challenges in confirming their existence. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the criteria for resonance classification and the implications of experimental findings.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on experimental techniques and the potential for misinterpretation of data regarding lower-rated resonances. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the implications of resonance width and cross-section on the classification of nucleon states.

snorkack
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The spectrum of first generation resonances, counting Δ but including only 4 and 3 star particles (the latter in italics) goes:
p(938)1/2+
n(940)1/2+

Δ(1230)3/2+
N(1440)1/2+
N(1520)1/2-
N(1535)1/2-
Δ(1600)3/2+
Δ(1620)1/2-
N(1650)1/2-
N(1675)5/2-
N(1680)5/2+
Δ(1700)3/2-
N(1700)3/2-
N(1710)1/2+
N(1720)3/2+
N(1875)3/2-
N(1880)1/2+

N(1895)1/2-
N(1900)3/2+
Δ(1900)1/2-
Δ(1905)5/2+
Δ(1910)1/2+
Δ(1920)3/2+
Δ(1930)5/2-

Δ(1950)7/2+
N(2060)5/2-
N(2100)1/2+
N(2120)3/2-

N(2190)7/2-
Δ(2200)7/2-
N(2220)9/2+
N(2250)9/2-
Δ(2420)11/2+
N(2600)11/2-

So, the series terminates around 2500 MeV.
What prevents existence of higher energy resonances?
 
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PDG lists discovered particles only, with various degrees of certainty indicated by stars. There might be higher excited states but if they are wide (short-living) they can be impossible to find experimentally. If they are too wide it's questionable if we can talk about their existence as separate states at all.
 
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snorkack said:
\What prevents existence of higher energy resonances?

Nothing.

In theory, higher energy resonances are possible, although hard to see. But, as @mfb correctly notes, "PDG lists discovered particles only" and those are the ones that we've discovered so far.

As @mfb also correctly notes, there might at some point be circumstances in which something intrinsically limits the possibility of discovering a more massive resonance. But there is no good reason to think that the current limit is anything more than a function of how much money we've spent so far on experiments and instrumentation designed to see it. If we spent another 500 billion Euros on a bigger and better collider than the LHC we would almost surely see at least a few higher mass excitations than we have so far, and would almost certainly verify or rule out some of the one or two star resonances seen so far.
 
A mistake in my first post - wrong spin for one.
For example, the nucleons with lowest energy for a given spin:
p(938)1/2+****
N(1520)3/2-****
N(1675)5/2-****
N(1990)7⁄2+**

N(2220)9/2+****
N(2600)11/2-***
N(2700)13⁄2+**
So, looking at the series - what in the known properties makes the N(2600) a *** particle, and N(1990) and N(2700) ** particles? Large width compared to the **** resonances like N(2220)9/2+? Low cross-section for formation? Why is there no observed N with spin 15/2, not even *? Can the mass, resonance width and formation cross-section of a nucleon of 15/2 spin be predicted?
 
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snorkack said:
4 and 3 star particles
If one were to consider two star (**), then one would note higher energy resonances.
** = evidence of existence is fair.

Isn't it a bit arbitrary to consider only **** and ***, which means "Existence is certain" or "Existence is very likely"? If one considers the ** entries, then one would observe ∆(2950) 15/2+, but the existence is fair (**). Ostensibly, there is some theoretical basis. So, to increase it to ***, what experimental evidence is needed?

From 2019 - https://pdg.lbl.gov/2019/reviews/rpp2019-rev-n-delta-resonances.pdf
compare to 2006 - https://www.jlab.org/conferences/Nstar/talks/Capstick.pdf (slides 9 and 13). Also see, cautionary notes on Slides 15 and 16.

Slide 15 of Capstick's 2006 presentation - "“In the search for ‘missing’ quark-model states, indications of new structures occasionally are found. Often these are associated (if possible) with the one- and two-star states listed in Table 1. We caution against this: The status of the one-and two-star states found in the Karlsruhe-Helsinki (KH80) and Carnegie-Mellon/Berkeley (CMB80) fits is now doubtful.”"

A seemingly more skeptical tone is expressed on Slide 16 - "1* states are a dream, 2* states are a fantasy," which is attributed to Steve Dytman, 2005

See also Capstick, Slide 21
 
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