Use of irrational numbers for coordinate system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of irrational numbers in coordinate systems, particularly in relation to plotting functions like ##y=e## and the implications of using rational versus irrational grids. Participants explore the practicality and visualization aspects of different coordinate systems, as well as the mathematical properties of irrational numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of irrational coordinate systems, arguing that functions like ##y=e## can be plotted on rational grids due to the existence of rational approximations.
  • Another participant suggests that the axes of most graphs often include irrational numbers, prompting a query about the truth of this statement.
  • A different viewpoint indicates that the choice of coordinate system depends on the specific functions being plotted, with examples like sine waves benefiting from irrational tick marks.
  • It is noted that logarithmic and polar plotting are distinct from linear scales, implying that different contexts may favor different types of grids.
  • A participant elaborates on the concept of an irrational grid system, describing a hypothetical graph paper layout that includes irrational numbers like ##\sqrt{2}##, ##e##, and ##\pi##.
  • Another contribution highlights that what is considered irrational in one unit of measure may be rational in another, emphasizing the convenience of using appropriate units for specific tasks.
  • One participant clarifies that while the series for ##e## consists of rational terms, the sum is irrational, reinforcing the distinction between rational approximations and the actual value of ##e##.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and practicality of using irrational coordinate systems versus rational ones. There is no consensus on whether one system is preferable over the other, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of coordinate systems and the properties of numbers, which may not be universally applicable. The effectiveness of different plotting methods is context-dependent and may vary based on the specific mathematical functions involved.

Faiq
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Why should a person prefer irrational coordinate system over rational? My friend stated that its because most lines such as ##y=e## cannot be plotted on a rational grid system. But that cannot be true since ##e## does have a rational number summation ##2+1/10+7/100...## which can be utilised to plot ##y=e## on the rational coordinate system.

So why don't we use rational number coordinate system?

P.S. By irrational grid system I mean a grid in which ##π,e## can be plotted.
 
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Faiq said:
the coordinate axis on most of the graphs always irrational
Is this true?
 
DrClaude said:
Is this true?
Edited
 
It depends on what you plot. For instance, if you have a sine waves, it makes sense to use tick marks at multiples of some fraction of π, especially if plotting by hand.

On a computer, everything is easy to calculate, but one might still use irrational ticks for purposes of visualization.

I don't remember ever seeing an axis in terms of e.
 
We do use logarithmic plotting and polar plotting which are different from a linear scale.

In order to be adopted by other folks, you'd need to suggest a use for the rational plotting case and perhaps provide an example.

Just to ask why isn't always helpful but it is inventive and this is sometimes how new math is developed.
 
Faiq said:
By irrational grid system I mean a grid in which π,eπ,eπ,e can be plotted.
That is, you imagine a sheet of graph paper where the grid lines are laid out at in a somewhat irregular pattern such as at ##\sqrt{2}##, ##e##, ##\pi##, ##e \pi## and integer multiples thereof?

Nothing stops one from plotting ##y= e^x## on ordinary ruled paper. Though one can use semi-log ruled paper instead.

https://www.printablepaper.net/category/log
 
What is irrational in one unit of measure is rational in another. A right angle can be irrational (1.5707963267949 radians), radians expressed in rational units of π, integer (90°), or rational (1/4 rotation). Most people would use the most convenient units for their work. In the context of trig functions, I imagine that some people would label the axes in rotations, but I think that most people label the axis either in rational units of π or in radians. You can Google "sine graph" and see images with all various axis labels. On the other hand, if you Google "graph", you will see images whose axes are predominately integers.
 
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Faiq said:
My friend stated that its because most lines such as ##y=e## cannot be plotted on a rational grid system. But that cannot be true since ##e## does have a rational number summation ##2+1/10+7/100...## which can be utilised to plot ##y=e## on the rational coordinate system.
Although the terms in the series are all fractions (and thus rational), the sum of the series is an irrational number -- e.
Although we can locate the exact position of the number e on the real number line, we can approximate its location to just about any desired precision.
 

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