Using eigenvalues and eigenvectors to solve system of ODEs

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around using eigenvalues and eigenvectors to find the general solution of a system of ordinary differential equations (ODEs) represented in matrix form. The original poster presents a system involving three variables and expresses uncertainty about their calculations and the implications of repeated eigenvalues.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the conversion of the system of ODEs into a matrix form and the calculation of the characteristic polynomial. There are attempts to derive eigenvalues and eigenvectors, with some participants questioning the correctness of the roots and the methods used to find them.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the characteristic polynomial and its roots, with some participants expressing confidence in their calculations while others challenge the results. Multiple interpretations of the eigenvalues are being examined, and guidance has been offered regarding verification of eigenvectors and the implications of repeated roots.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of including derivatives in the original system and the potential confusion arising from repeated eigenvalues. There is also mention of checking the determinant of the original matrix against the product of the eigenvalues.

joseph_18_18
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Homework Statement


Use eigenvalues and eigenvectors to find the general solution of the system of ODEs..

x1 = 3x1 - x2
x2 = -x1 + 2x2 - x3
x3 = -x2 + 3x3

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I converted that into the matrix
(3-λ -1 0)
(-1 2-λ -1) using 0=|A-λI|
(0 -1 3-λ)

Sorry, I am new and don't know how else to write out the matrix... but I hope you get the gist..


I then solved through to get (3-λ)(λ-3)(λ-2)

λ=2 got me an eigenvector (5,1,5)T

λ=3 got me an eigenvecotr (6,1,6)T


Not really sure if I have done this correctly, and if it's correct I'm not sure how I would get this into a general solution eλt(eigenvector)T seeing as there is a repeated root.


Thanks
 
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joseph_18_18 said:

Homework Statement


Use eigenvalues and eigenvectors to find the general solution of the system of ODEs..

x1 = 3x1 - x2
x2 = -x1 + 2x2 - x3
x3 = -x2 + 3x3
You're missing the primes in the column vector at the left. These are supposed to be derivatives.
joseph_18_18 said:

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I converted that into the matrix
(3-λ -1 0)
(-1 2-λ -1) using 0=|A-λI|
(0 -1 3-λ)

Sorry, I am new and don't know how else to write out the matrix... but I hope you get the gist..


I then solved through to get (3-λ)(λ-3)(λ-2)
I'm pretty sure you made a mistake. I get a different characteristic polynomial with three distinct roots. Show us what you did to get the char. polynomial.
joseph_18_18 said:
λ=2 got me an eigenvector (5,1,5)T
When you reach the point that you have found an eigenvector, a sanity test is a good idea. For your matrix (call it A) and the eigenvector you found (call it x), verify that Ax = 2x.
joseph_18_18 said:
λ=3 got me an eigenvecotr (6,1,6)T


Not really sure if I have done this correctly, and if it's correct I'm not sure how I would get this into a general solution eλt(eigenvector)T seeing as there is a repeated root.


Thanks
 
Yeah, sorry they were meant to have primes on them, my bad.

Okay, from

(3-λ -1 0)
(-1 2-λ -1)
(0 -1 3-λ)

I did Column 1 - C3 to get

(3-λ -1 0)
(0 2-λ -1)
(-(3-λ) -1 3-λ)

I then took out (3-λ) as it's a common factor of C1 to get: (This is the step i wasn't too confident on)

(3-λ) (1 -1 0)
(0 2-λ -1)
(-1 -1 3-λ)

I then did C2 - C1:

(3-λ) (1 0 0)
(0 2-λ -1)
(-1 0 3-λ)

Sorry if this is quite hard to read! The second brackets is the matrix and the (3-λ) is the common factor i have extracted.

From here i simplified to:

(3-λ) (2-λ -1)
( 0 3-λ) which gave this answer:

(3-λ)(6 - 5λ + λ2)

=

(3-λ)(λ-3)(λ-2) = 0

therefore λ = 3,3,2

I think you can check to see if you're on the right step by seeing if the product of the eigenvalues is the same as the determinant of the original matrix, and they both come out to be 18... But I'm not too sure if this is correct.


''When you reach the point that you have found an eigenvector, a sanity test is a good idea. For your matrix (call it A) and the eigenvector you found (call it x), verify that Ax = 2x.''

For Ax i ended up with (14,8,14)T and 2x was (10,2,10)T, i presume this means I have made a mistake somewhere..

Thanks Mark.
 
joseph_18_18 said:
Yeah, sorry they were meant to have primes on them, my bad.

Okay, from

(3-λ -1 0)
(-1 2-λ -1)
(0 -1 3-λ)
I expanded the determinant across the first row to get
(3-λ)[(2 - λ)(3 - λ) - 1] + 1(λ - 3 - 0). I am confident of this work.
joseph_18_18 said:
I did Column 1 - C3 to get

(3-λ -1 0)
(0 2-λ -1)
(-(3-λ) -1 3-λ)

I then took out (3-λ) as it's a common factor of C1 to get: (This is the step i wasn't too confident on)

(3-λ) (1 -1 0)
(0 2-λ -1)
(-1 -1 3-λ)

I then did C2 - C1:

(3-λ) (1 0 0)
(0 2-λ -1)
(-1 0 3-λ)

Sorry if this is quite hard to read! The second brackets is the matrix and the (3-λ) is the common factor i have extracted.

From here i simplified to:

(3-λ) (2-λ -1)
( 0 3-λ) which gave this answer:

(3-λ)(6 - 5λ + λ2)

=

(3-λ)(λ-3)(λ-2) = 0

therefore λ = 3,3,2

I think you can check to see if you're on the right step by seeing if the product of the eigenvalues is the same as the determinant of the original matrix, and they both come out to be 18... But I'm not too sure if this is correct.




For Ax i ended up with (14,8,14)T and 2x was (10,2,10)T, i presume this means I have made a mistake somewhere..

Thanks Mark.
 
I expanded the determinant across the first row to get
(3-λ)[(2 - λ)(3 - λ) - 1] + 1(λ - 3 - 0). I am confident of this work.

Does this mean I have the correct roots?

If so, how should I approach the eigenvectors with a repeated root?

Thanks Mark
 
No, you don't have the correct roots. There are three distinct roots.

What I had in my post was part of the work needed to find the roots. You can start from where I left off to find these roots.
 
multiplying out gave me

λ3 + 2λ2 -19λ -12

which factorised (using grouping) to:

(λ+2)(λ2-19)


Am I doing it right?

Thanks again.
 
joseph_18_18 said:
multiplying out gave me

λ3 + 2λ2 -19λ -12

which factorised (using grouping) to:

(λ+2)(λ2-19)


Am I doing it right?

Thanks again.
No. Show me how you got this: λ3 + 2λ2 -19λ -12

The 3 roots are positive integers.
 
I multiplied out the first brackets to get:

(3-λ)(5-5λ-λ2)+(-3) + λ

=

15-15λ-3λ2-5λ+5λ23-3+λ

=

λ3+2λ2-19λ-12...

Thanks
 
  • #10
joseph_18_18 said:
I multiplied out the first brackets to get:

(3-λ)(5-5λ-λ2)+(-3) + λ
That's still not quite right.
Starting from here -- (3-λ)[(2 - λ)(3 - λ) - 1] + 1(λ - 3 - 0) --
you should have (3-λ)[5 -5λ +[/color] λ2] + λ - 3.

Instead of multiplying things out, it's quicker to notice that 3 - λ is a factor in the first product and the second expression. This gives you
(3-λ)[5 -5λ + λ2 - 1]
Can you work it out from here?
joseph_18_18 said:
=

15-15λ-3λ2-5λ+5λ23-3+λ

=

λ3+2λ2-19λ-12...

Thanks
 
  • #11
joseph_18_18 said:
I multiplied out the first brackets to get:

(3-λ)(5-5λ-λ2)+(-3) + λ
There's a sign error in the line above. You didn't multiply (2 - λ)(3 - λ) correctly.
joseph_18_18 said:
=

15-15λ-3λ2-5λ+5λ23-3+λ

=

λ3+2λ2-19λ-12...

Thanks
 
Last edited:

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