Using Lagrangian to show a particle has a circular orbit

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem from classical dynamics involving the use of the Lagrangian to demonstrate that a particle can maintain a circular orbit. The original poster presents the Lagrangian and derives expressions for the Hamiltonian and generalized momentum, leading to a consideration of the equations of motion for a circular trajectory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to establish the conditions under which a particle can maintain a circular orbit, questioning the validity of their approach and the implications of the derived equations of motion. Some participants explore the meaning of stability under shifts along the z-axis, suggesting the possibility of perturbations and their effects on the motion.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering hints and exploring different interpretations of the conditions necessary for stability. There is a recognition of the need to clarify assumptions regarding the function g(z) and its derivatives, particularly in relation to perturbations in the z-direction.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the implications of assuming g'(z) = 0 and the conditions under which the trajectory remains stable for shifts along the z-axis. The original poster expresses uncertainty about the sufficiency of their method and the assumptions involved.

gromit
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Homework Statement
The motion of an electron of mass m and charge (-e) moving in a magnetic
field: ##B = \nabla \times A(r)## is described by the Lagrangian
##L = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 - ev \cdot A(r)##

Working in cylindrical polar coordinates, consider the vector potential:
##A = (0, rg(z), 0)##
where ##g(z) > 0##:
1.) Obtain two constants of motion
2.) Show that if the electron is projected from a point ##(r_0, θ_0, z_0)## with velocity ##\dot{r} = \dot{z} = 0## and ##\dot{θ} = \frac{2eg(z_0)}{m}##, then it will describe a circular orbit provided that ##g'(z_0) = 0##
3.) Show that these orbits are stable to shifts along the z axis if ##tg′′ > 0##
Relevant Equations
##L = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 - ev \cdot A(r)##
##A = (0, rg(z), 0)##
Hi :) This is a problem from David Tong's Classical Dynamics course, found here: http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/dynamics.html. In particular it is problem 6ii in the first problem sheet.

Firstly we can see the lagrangian is ##L = \frac{1}{2}m(\dot{r}^2+r^2\dot{\theta}^2+\dot{z}^2) - er^2g(z)\dot{\theta}##. From this it has symmetry in time and ##\theta## so the hamiltonian and generalised momentum for ##\theta## must be conserved. I found these to be:
$$H = \frac{1}{2}m(\dot{r}^2+r^2\dot{\theta}+\dot{z}^2)$$
$$p_{\theta} = mr^2\dot{\theta} - er^2g(z)$$
So these will be the two constants of motion. The next part is where I get a little shaky. I assume that you could consider the circle:
$$r(t) = r_0$$
$$\theta(t) = \frac{2eg(z_0)}{m}t + \theta_0$$
$$z(t) = z_0$$
And show that this satisfies the equations of motion derived from the Lagrangian (as well as the given boundary conditions). Namely:
$$m\ddot{r}+2erg(z)\dot{\theta} - mr^2\dot{\theta} = 0$$
$$(mr^2\dot{\theta} - er^2g(z))' = 0$$
$$m\ddot{z} + er^2g'(z)\dot{\theta} = 0$$
Then this part is solved (please correct me if I'm wrong). Substitution does show that the described solutions works for the first two, and it must be assumed that ##g'(z) = 0## for the last equation of motion to be satisfied. On a side note, if this is a valid method, could I just use the constants of motion instead and that would still be sufficient?

The final part is where I am completely stuck. It seems to me that the trajectory remaining a circular orbit for a shift in the z-axis relies on ##g'(z) = 0##, but the inequality provided does not guarantee this for an arbitrary shift?

Thank you so much for your help :)
 
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I wonder what is meant here by "stable under shifts along the z axis"? I'm sure it cannot be, say, a change in the initial conditions ##z_0 \mapsto z_0 + \alpha##, because ##z_0## is already arbitrary making the statement obvious.

So is he talking about making a small pertubation ##z = z_0 + \xi##, and then showing that ##\xi## oscillates simple harmonically provided the condition is satisfied?
 
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ergospherical said:
I wonder what is meant here by "stable under shifts along the z axis"? I'm sure it cannot be, say, a change in the initial conditions ##z_0 \mapsto z_0 + \alpha##, because ##z_0## is already arbitrary making the statement obvious.

So is he talking about making a small pertubation ##z = z_0 + \xi##, and then showing that ##\xi## oscillates simple harmonically provided the condition is satisfied?
That makes much more sense, thank you!
 
As a hint, you could substitute ##z = z_0 + \xi## into the equation of motion ##m\ddot{z} + er^2g'(z)\dot{\theta} = 0## for ##z## and then Taylor expand ##g(z_0 + \xi)## to first order in ##\xi##. If ##g''(z_0) > 0## then the resulting equation of motion for ##\xi## is one of SHM with an equilibrium position displaced from the origin, and a substitution allows you to calculate ##\xi##. This is assuming that we can take ##\dot{\theta}## to be approximately constant in the perturbed case.

Again I'm not sure if that's correct, but it seems reasonable...?
 
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ergospherical said:
As a hint, you could substitute ##z = z_0 + \xi## into the equation of motion ##m\ddot{z} + er^2g'(z)\dot{\theta} = 0## for ##z## and then Taylor expand ##g(z_0 + \xi)## to first order in ##\xi##. If ##g''(z_0) > 0## then the resulting equation of motion is one of SHM with an equilibrium position displaced from the origin, and a substitution allows you to calculate ##\xi##. This is assuming that we can take ##\dot{\theta}## to be approximately constant in the perturbed case.

Again I'm not sure if that's correct, but it seems reasonable...?
I just went through this roughly by hand, and it seems to answer it perfectly. Thanks again!
 
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