Using the CMB to verify the universe is flat

  • Thread starter Thread starter robertjford80
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cmb Flat Universe
Click For Summary
The discussion centers on using the cosmic microwave background (CMB) to verify the flatness of the universe. A YouTube video explains how the Earth serves as an apex of a triangle to measure angles related to the CMB, but the method for determining these angles remains unclear to participants. The conversation touches on the significance of a specific length scale defined by sound waves in the early universe, which can be theoretically calculated based on cosmological models. Observations of the CMB reveal this length scale, corresponding to a peak in the power spectrum, which helps determine the angular diameter distance to the last scattering surface. The established relationship between angular diameter distance and observed angles is linked to baryonic acoustic oscillations in the CMB.
robertjford80
Messages
388
Reaction score
0
There is a video on youtube called how do we know the universe is flat. (put those keyword in youtube and you should find it, I can't post links to videos until I have 10 posts) It has something to do with using the Earth as an apex of a triangle then measuring two points on the cosmic microwave background. I'm assuming they then add the angles of the triangle up to 180 degrees. Well, how do you know what the angles of your triangle are? I've seen three tries at attempting to explain this. No one succeeds. There is also something about going around the Earth in a balloon in Antartica and I don't see why that is necessary.
 
Space news on Phys.org
There is a very special length scale for the perturbations in the cosmic microwave background. This scale is defined by speed of sound in the initial soup of hot plasma, and basically it's the distance across which sounds waves had time to travel before CMB decoupled from the plasma. We can determine this distance theoretically (given a certain cosmological model).

When you measure CMB today, you can see this length scale very clearly in the data: it corresponds to the highest peak in http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product...nyear/powspectra/images/med/dl7_f01_PPT_M.png. The position of the peak tells us what is the angle that this length is seen in the sky; it's about 1 square degree. We can also determine the angular diameter distance to the last scattering surface (again given a cosmological model, so the possible curvature enters the calculation here). Then we can compare to observations via
d_A = \frac{x}{\theta},
where dA is the angular diameter distance, x is the actual size of these sound waves and \theta is the angle we observe in the sky.
 
Already been done, its called the baryonic acoustic oscillation of the cmb.
 
I always thought it was odd that we know dark energy expands our universe, and that we know it has been increasing over time, yet no one ever expressed a "true" size of the universe (not "observable" universe, the ENTIRE universe) by just reversing the process of expansion based on our understanding of its rate through history, to the point where everything would've been in an extremely small region. The more I've looked into it recently, I've come to find that it is due to that "inflation"...

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
783
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K