Vary Metric w/ Respect to Veirbein: How To?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on varying the metric with respect to the vierbein in the context of general relativity, particularly focusing on the implications of torsion and the relationship between the metric, vierbein, and Christoffel symbols. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to vary the metric given in terms of the vierbein and expresses confusion over the term resulting from the variation of the vierbein.
  • Another participant suggests that the components of the vierbein can be treated as independent variables, leading to a specific relation for the variation.
  • A different participant inquires about taking the variation of the Christoffel symbol with respect to the vierbein in the presence of torsion, noting the complexity of the calculation in the torsion-free case.
  • One participant references Einstein-Cartan theory, explaining that in this framework, the metric and torsion tensor are independent variables and provides relevant equations related to the covariant derivative and contorsion tensor.
  • Another participant clarifies that they are self-studying general relativity using Sean Carroll's notes and expresses appreciation for the explanations provided in the thread.
  • A participant corrects a spelling error regarding the term "vierbein," providing a brief etymological note.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the vierbein and the implications of torsion, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus on the best approach to the variation of the Christoffel symbol.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the independence of the vierbein components and the relationship between torsion and the Christoffel symbols, which may not be universally accepted or resolved within the context of the conversation.

Physicist97
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Hello! Given a metric in terms of the Veirbein, ##g_{\mu\nu}=e^{a}_{\mu}e^{b}_{\nu}{\eta}_{ab}## , how would you go about varying it with respect to ##e^{a}_{\mu}## ? I know that ##{\delta}g_{\mu\nu}={\delta}e^{a}_{\mu}e^{b}_{\nu}{\eta}_{ab}+e^{a}_{\mu}{\delta}e^{b}_{\nu}{\eta}_{ab}## , with ##{\delta}{\eta}_{ab}=0## . Then I would divide both sides by ##{\delta}e^{a}_{\mu}## , but that leaves me with the term ##{\frac{{\delta}e^{b}_{\nu}}{{\delta}e^{a}_{\mu}}}## . What would I do with that? Thanks for any help :)
 
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Typically you'd assume that the components of the vierbein are independent variables, so that ##\delta e^b_\nu / \delta e^a_\mu = \delta^b_a \delta^\mu_\nu##.
 
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Thank you! I have another question, assuming there is torsion, how would you go about taking the variation of the christoffel symbol with respect to the veirbein, ##{\delta}{\Gamma}^{\sigma}_{\mu\nu}/{\delta}e^{a}_{\tau}## ? If it was torsion-free I would just take the christoffel symbols in terms of the metric, and do a very long, algebraically tedious calculation. But I can't seem to find an equation for the christoffel symbols when there is torsion.
 
Are you working from a particular reference? In Einstein-Cartan theory, I believe that the metric and torsion tensor are taken to be independent variables. In this theory, the covariant derivative is

$$ \nabla_\mu V_\nu = \partial_\mu V_\nu - ({\Gamma^\rho}_{\mu\nu} + {K^\rho}_{\mu\nu} )V_\rho,~~~(*)$$

where ##{\gamma^\rho}_{\mu\nu}## is the usual Christoffel symbol expressed in terms of the metric and ##{K^\rho}_{\mu\nu} ## is the contorsion tensor, related to the torsion tensor ##{T^\rho}_{\mu\nu} ## by

$$ K_{\rho\mu\nu} = \frac{1}{2} ( T_{\rho\mu\nu} - T_{\mu\nu\rho} +T_{\nu\rho\mu} ).$$

In this way, ##{\Gamma^\rho}_{\mu\nu}= {\Gamma^\rho}_{\nu\mu}## and all of the torsion is contained in ##{T^\rho}_{\mu\nu}##. Because of the added term in (*) we say that the connection is no longer compatible with the metric.

I believe that you can also write this theory in terms of a vierbein and a spin connection ##{\omega_\mu}^{ab}+{\gamma_\mu}^{ab}##. Here ##{\omega_\mu}^{ab}## is the parti of the spin connection that can be related to the Christoffel symbol (as in the theory without torsion), while ##{\gamma_\mu}^{ab}## contains the torsion via something like

$$ {\gamma_\mu}^{ab} = K_{\rho\sigma \mu} ( e^{a\rho} e^{b\sigma} - e^{a\sigma} e^{b\rho}).$$

Presumably you can take ##e^a_\mu, {\omega_\mu}^{ab} ##, and ##{\gamma_\mu}^{ab}## as independent variables.

I referred to this review by Shapiro to gather the formulas together, but I don't think he addresses the variational principle directly in this formalism.
 
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Thank you again. No I'm not working from any reference. I'm trying to self study GR from Sean Carroll's online notes, and am working with Veirbeins, Spin Connection, etc. because i find them interesting, and to get practice with these things. Your explanation cleared a lot of things up, I appreciate the help.
 
You wrote twice veirbein instead of vierbein. The word comes from Germany where vier = 4 (ein, zwei, drei,vier). Tetrad comes Greece (tetra = 4)
Greetings from France.
 

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