Calculating Brake Drum Size and Hydraulic Pressure for Vehicle Braking System

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design of a braking system for a machine, specifically focusing on calculating the required size of brake drums and the hydraulic pressure needed to operate them. The context includes considerations of vehicle speed, weight, stopping distance, and friction coefficients, with participants seeking equations and empirical data to support their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks help with calculating the braking force needed to stop a 5000 kg machine traveling at 12 km/h within 6 meters, using two drum brakes operated by hydraulic pressure.
  • Another participant questions the deceleration calculation, suggesting that the stopping distance does not align with the stated deceleration of 1.2 m/s².
  • A participant proposes that the size of the brake drum and the hydraulic pressure are related, indicating that larger drums may allow for lower hydraulic pressures.
  • One participant mentions the need for empirical data to determine the relationship between brake size, power dissipation, and hydraulic pressure.
  • Another participant points out the complexity of the braking force equation, noting that it involves multiple unknowns, including drum dimensions and hydraulic pressure.
  • A participant provides a formula for braking torque and suggests equating it to the required braking torque to derive relationships between the variables involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations related to deceleration and stopping distance, and there is no consensus on the exact equations or empirical data needed to solve for the brake drum size and hydraulic pressure.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on various unknowns, such as the radius of the drum and normal force, which complicates the calculations. There are references to external articles and equations that may provide additional context but remain unverified within the discussion.

joesoap
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Hi, I am looking for some help with a project I am doing where I am designing a braking system for a machine.

The machine can travel up to a maximum speed of 12khm and weighs 5000kg.

I need to stop the vehicle in approx. 6 meters/1.2m/s deceleration, using two drum brakes which are operated with hydraulic pressure.

I have calculated the required braking force
F = Ma
6000 = 5000x1.2

Is there an equation to calculate the size of brake drum that I need and the amount of hyd pressure I need to operate the brake?
 
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I also need an equation for the what force would make the wheel lock.

I am using a coefficient of friction between pad and drum - 0.3
between floor and wheel 0.8

I just need basic figures really.
 
joesoap said:
The machine can travel up to a maximum speed of 12khm...
khm ?
joesoap said:
I need to stop the vehicle in approx. 6 meters/1.2m/s deceleration

If you meant 12 kilometres per hour then a stopping distance of 6m isn't equivalent to a deceleration of 1.2 m/s/s.
 
joesoap said:
Is there an equation to calculate the size of brake drum that I need and the amount of hyd pressure I need to operate the brake?

I believe these two things are related. eg Bigger drums allow lower hydraulic pressures.

I suspect you may have to find empirical data (for example how much power can brakes of a certain size dissipate while still having a reasonable lifetime). That may dictate the minimum size of drum/pad. From that and the friction coefficient (and any leverage in the system) you should be able to work out the pressure required.
 
They are related, that's why I asked if anyone knew the equations.

12 kph stopped in 6m is 1.2 ms
 
Welcome to the PF, Joe.

You should try to be a bit more careful when typing in units -- it's very confusing trying to read some of what you typed. Acceleration has units of m/s^2, for example.

Anyway, this article should get you going. It covers the hydraulics and friction/leverage in the 2nd page...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/brake.htm

:smile:
 
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joesoap said:
They are related, that's why I asked if anyone knew the equations.

What I meant was that the equation for braking force is likely to have (at least) two unknowns...

The dimensions (eg diameter of drum)
The hydraulic pressure.

One equation with two unknowns can't be solved so eventually you will need more information such as empirical data that relates power or wear to the dimensions/diameter of the drum or pads. I had a look for that yesterday but only found this from the 1970's...

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/1354/13894?sequence=2

Page 8 onwards appears to have some of the equations you need but I haven't read it all. For example see Eqn 5 and 6 page 8.
 
Perhaps this also helps.. With reference to the diagram..

The braking torque Ti is

uNRd .......(1)

Where
u = coefficient of friction (you said 0.3)
N = Normal force (depends on brake pressure and area, unknown)
Rd = Radius of the drum (unknown).

The required Braking Torque at each wheel is

maRw/4 .......(2)

where
m = Mass of vehicle
a = Deceleration of vehicle
Rw = Radius of Wheel
(m is divided by 4 because there are four wheels)

Equate (1) and (2)

uNRd = maRw/4

This can be rearranged to give essentially the same equation as Eqn5 in the reference in #7. Note they summed over 4 wheels and used weight instead of mass.

There are two unknowns as I predicted. The radius of the drum and the Normal force (Hydraulic pressure)

Braking Force.jpg


Edit: If you choose a "practical" drum diameter and pad area you can solve for the hydraulic pressure needed.
 
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