Vehicle's RPM do not match speed. Why?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between a vehicle's RPM (revolutions per minute) and its speed, particularly focusing on automatic transmission cars from different manufacturers. Participants explore factors that influence RPM readings at specific speeds, including engine design, transmission characteristics, and gear ratios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that American automatic transmission cars reach 60 mph at 2250 RPM, while Japanese cars do so at 2500 RPM, questioning the reasons behind this difference.
  • Others propose that automotive engineers design transmissions with specific power transfer ratios to match the engine characteristics.
  • It is mentioned that the tachometer measures engine RPM, which varies with speed due to differences in engine, transmission, and tire size.
  • Participants discuss how the relationship between engine RPM and wheel speed is influenced by gear ratios in both the transmission and the differential, with typical ratios ranging from 2.5:1 to 4.5:1.
  • Some express that different vehicles may have a wide range of RPMs at 60 mph, with high-performance cars potentially operating below 2000 RPM and others exceeding 3000 RPM.
  • One participant shares personal experience, noting their Kia Optima operates at 2000 RPM at 70 mph, and speculates on the benefits of lower RPMs in terms of noise and fuel efficiency.
  • Another participant mentions that quieter vehicles may come at a higher cost, and that road and wind noise can mask engine sounds at cruising speeds.
  • Specific examples of vehicles with low RPMs at higher speeds are provided, including the Corvette Z06 and Dodge Viper, suggesting that engine size and design play significant roles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of RPM differences or the desirability of lower RPMs. Multiple competing views and personal experiences are shared, indicating an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that various factors such as engine type, transmission design, and vehicle characteristics contribute to the observed differences in RPM at given speeds. There is no resolution on the optimal RPM for performance or comfort.

Psinter
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I've been observing cars RPM and noticed that automatic transmission American cars reach 60 mph at 2250 RPM while automatic transmission Japanese cars reach 60mph at 2500RPM.

Why is that? Like, what determines RPMs? The rotation from what is being measured?
 
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The only thing more surprising the transmissions being different is if they were all the same. I would suppose the automotive engineers select or design a transmission that provides the power transfer ratios that match the engine to be used.
 
The tachometer measures the RPMs of the engine, which will absolutely have a different relationship with the car's speed depending on the engine, transmission, or even size of the tires.
 
The speed at which the engine turns and the speed at which the driving wheels turn is related by the combination of gear ratio in the transmission and the gear ration in the differential. Gear ratios in the differential generally fall in the range of about 2.5:1 to 3.5:1, but they can range as high as 4.5:1 for cars designed for quick acceleration without regard to fuel economy.

The purpose of the transmission is to keep the engine operating at a band of RPMs where it is most fuel efficient. When the transmission shifts into its drive configuration, the gear ratio thru the transmission is 1:1, but with overdrive transmissions, this ratio could be as low as 0.8:1. Different cars have different engines, transmissions, and final drive gear ratios, which is why the engines do not turn at the same RPM for the same road speed.
 
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Psinter said:
I've been observing cars RPM and noticed that automatic transmission American cars reach 60 mph at 2250 RPM while automatic transmission Japanese cars reach 60mph at 2500RPM.

Why is that? Like, what determines RPMs? The rotation from what is being measured?

There's probably quite a bit more spread even than that - some cars might be doing less than 2000rpm at 60mph (especially high performance cars with big engines), while others might be doing over 3000rpm at 60 (cars with relatively small engines for example). It's not really a matter of where the car was made/designed, it's more just a design tradeoff depending on the engine and the desired characteristics of the car.
 
SteamKing said:
The speed at which the engine turns and the speed at which the driving wheels turn is related by the combination of gear ratio in the transmission and the gear ration in the differential. Gear ratios in the differential generally fall in the range of about 2.5:1 to 3.5:1, but they can range as high as 4.5:1 for cars designed for quick acceleration without regard to fuel economy.

The purpose of the transmission is to keep the engine operating at a band of RPMs where it is most fuel efficient. When the transmission shifts into its drive configuration, the gear ratio thru the transmission is 1:1, but with overdrive transmissions, this ratio could be as low as 0.8:1. Different cars have different engines, transmissions, and final drive gear ratios, which is why the engines do not turn at the same RPM for the same road speed.
Thanks, this clears it up.

cjl said:
There's probably quite a bit more spread even than that - some cars might be doing less than 2000rpm at 60mph (especially high performance cars with big engines), while others might be doing over 3000rpm at 60 (cars with relatively small engines for example). It's not really a matter of where the car was made/designed, it's more just a design tradeoff depending on the engine and the desired characteristics of the car.
< than 2000 at 60??! I would love to have a vehicle like that. :!)
 
Psinter said:
< than 2000 at 60??! I would love to have a vehicle like that. :!)
Get a diesel or a truck. Heck, my Kia Optima is at 2000 rpm at 70 mph. Not sure why you would care, though; it doesn't really mean anything.
 
russ_watters said:
Get a diesel or a truck. Heck, my Kia Optima is at 2000 rpm at 70 mph. Not sure why you would care, though; it doesn't really mean anything.

I should do that then. I'm assuming less RPM means more silence, but I may be wrong. It does mean something to me if it makes less sound. I like silent vehicles.
 
You certainly don't want a diesel then.
Quiet = refinement = expense.
Turn the radio up and have done.

Also depends what you mean by quiet, at 60mph cruise combustion noise has a decent amount of masking from road and wind noise.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Psinter said:
< than 2000 at 60 mph
2006 -> 2013 Corvette Z06 7.0 liter engine - 1500 rpm at 70 mph in 6th gear. Dodge Viper, 8.0+ liter engines, maybe even lower. Don't know about the 2014 Corvettes, 6.2 liter engine, and now 7 speed manual tranny. There will be a 2015 Corvette Z06, but it will be more like the previous ZR1, using a 600+ hp supercharged 6.2 liter engine.
 

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