Verification of tensor identities

  • Thread starter Thread starter rafaelpol
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    identities Tensor
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of skew-symmetric tensors in two dimensions, specifically addressing the nature of second and third rank tensors. The original poster attempts to show that a second rank skew-symmetric tensor behaves as a pseudoscalar and questions the feasibility of a third rank skew-symmetric tensor existing in this dimensionality.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definition of a pseudoscalar and its requirements, including behavior under parity transformations. There are questions about the interpretation of tensor components and their summation. The original poster and others discuss the implications of skew-symmetry and the number of components in third rank tensors.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the properties of tensors and questioning assumptions about their behavior under transformations. Some guidance is offered regarding the need to verify properties through direct application of transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the constraints of working within two dimensions and the implications this has on the ranks of tensors and their properties. There is a focus on the definitions and characteristics of pseudoscalars and skew-symmetric tensors.

rafaelpol
Messages
16
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Show that in 2 dimensions a skew-symmetric tensor of second rank is a pseudoscalar and that one of third rank is impossible.

The Attempt at a Solution



A11=A22=0, while A12=-A21, which makes

A= A12+A21, which is certainly skew-symmetric, though I am not sure it is a pseudoscalar since a pseudoscalar is a number, and the tensor should have only one component in this case, or maybe not?

I guess this will help with the next part of the exercise.

Thank you
 
Physics news on Phys.org
rafaelpol said:
A11=A22=0, while A12=-A21, which makes

A= A12+A21, which is certainly skew-symmetric, though I am not sure it is a pseudoscalar since a pseudoscalar is a number, and the tensor should have only one component in this case, or maybe not?

Ermm... A^{12}+A^{21}=0, why are you setting it equal to A?:confused:

Instead, go back to the definition of a pseudoscalar:

[PLAIN said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscalar]In[/PLAIN] physics, a pseudoscalar denotes a physical quantity analogous to a scalar. Both are physical quantities which assume a single value which is invariant under proper rotations. However, under the parity transformation, pseudoscalars flip their signs while scalars do not.

This means that in order to show something is a psuedoscalar, you need to show two things:

(1)The quantity flips signs under a parity transformation.

(2)Other than (1), the quantity behaves like a scalar (i.e. invariant under translations, rotations and Lorentz transformations).

I guess this will help with the next part of the exercise.

Not really. How many components will a 3rd rank tensor have in dimensions? Can a non-square matrix be skew-symmetric (or symmetric)?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I set it equal to A because I thought about tensors the way one usually talks about vectors which are the sum of their components.

From the requirements needed to be a pseudoscalar, the skew-symmetry of the components of the tensor proves it change signs under a parity transformation. Now, is the fact that the derivatives present in the tensor transformations do not change under translations or rotations the key to the problem? The invariance of the derivatives under translations is pretty obvious, but I am not sure I have a solid argument for the invariance of this under rotations. Why would that really happen?

Concerning the other question: a 3rd rank tensor in 2D will have 8 components, giving a 2x4 matrix, which cannot have definite parity. Is that right?

Thank you very much.
 
rafaelpol said:
I set it equal to A because I thought about tensors the way one usually talks about vectors which are the sum of their components.

But a vector isn't the sum of its components, the components must be multiplied by their corresponding unit vectors first and then summed together.

From the requirements needed to be a pseudoscalar, the skew-symmetry of the components of the tensor proves it change signs under a parity transformation.

Sure, but unless you've already proven this property, I suggest you actually perform a parity transformation on A^{ij} and verify that you get -A^{ij} as a result.

Now, is the fact that the derivatives present in the tensor transformations do not change under translations or rotations the key to the problem? The invariance of the derivatives under translations is pretty obvious, but I am not sure I have a solid argument for the invariance of this under rotations. Why would that really happen?

Again, try applying a general translation and rotation and see what happens.

Concerning the other question: a 3rd rank tensor in 2D will have 8 components, giving a 2x4 matrix, which cannot have definite parity. Is that right?

The question asks you to show that it is impossible to have a skew-symmetric tensor of rank 3 in D, not whther or not it will be a pseudoscalar. So, is it possible to have A^{ijk}=-A^{jik} and A^{ijk}=-A^{ikj} and A^{ijk}=-A^{kji} for i,j,k\in \{1,2\}?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K