Vertex Feynman Rule Derivations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of vertex Feynman rules involving field tensors, specifically focusing on the treatment of fields with derivatives and the implications for polarization in interactions. Participants explore the mathematical expressions and manipulations necessary to arrive at the correct vertex factors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to treat the two fields in the expression involving the field tensor and derivatives, seeking clarification on the vertex rule.
  • Another participant suggests that both fields must be included in the vertex rule, providing a specific expression involving momentum and polarization vectors.
  • A follow-up post seeks to clarify the concept of contraction in the context of field operators and expresses confusion about maintaining indices during the process.
  • Further elaboration includes a breakdown of the expression and emphasizes the antisymmetric nature of the terms, leading to a simplified form involving polarization vectors.
  • One participant asserts that polarization remains relevant in the context of vertices and Feynman rules, particularly for bosons with spin greater than zero.
  • Another participant presents a derivation of the vertex factor, suggesting that polarization should not be associated with the final expression, which contrasts with earlier points made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of polarization in the context of vertex factors, with some asserting its necessity while others argue against its inclusion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the role of polarization in the final expressions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the treatment of indices and the implications of the antisymmetric properties of the terms involved. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of how to handle polarization in the context of Feynman rules.

Elwin.Martin
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Alright, this is a pretty low level / silly question but I am having some issues.

I would like to get the vertex rule for an interaction that has a field tensor involved like this...
\partial_\mu Z_\nu -\partial_\nu Z_\mu
do I treat the two Z's as separate fields?

For a generic field term with a derivative \partial_\mu \varphi we pull out a k_\mu in momentum space...but I am just being stupid with these indices.

Advice, please?
 
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The term is linear in Z's, so you have to include both.

Imagine an in Z state, then this would give you (up to factors of i and -1 ):

<br /> k_{\mu} \epsilon_{\nu} - k_{\nu} \epsilon_{\mu}<br />

after contraction with each term.
 
Hepth said:
The term is linear in Z's, so you have to include both.

Imagine an in Z state, then this would give you (up to factors of i and -1 ):

<br /> k_{\mu} \epsilon_{\nu} - k_{\nu} \epsilon_{\mu}<br />

after contraction with each term.

...huh? After contraction? We still have our indices?



So if I started with

\sigma_{\mu \nu} F^{\mu \nu}_Z
I should end with
\sigma_{\mu \nu} (k^{\mu} \epsilon^{\nu} - k^{\nu} \epsilon^{\mu}) <br />
where
<br /> \sigma_{\mu \nu} = \frac{i}{2} (\gamma_{\mu}\gamma_{\nu}-\gamma_{\nu}\gamma_{\mu})<br />
I'm not sure how to get rid of the polarization though :/

Is there some simple relationship with the gamma matrices I should know?
 
By "contraction" I meant contracting the field operators in the lagrangian with those in the in/out states.

What you have is right (up to factors of I, -1) , and can be simplified further due to the antisymmetric nature of each:

<br /> = \sigma_{\mu \nu} (k^{\mu} \epsilon^{\nu} - k^{\nu} \epsilon^{\mu}) \\<br /> = \sigma_{\mu \nu} k^{\mu} \epsilon^{\nu} - \sigma_{\mu \nu} k^{\nu} \epsilon^{\mu} \\<br /> = \sigma_{\mu \nu} k^{\mu} \epsilon^{\nu} + \sigma_{\nu \mu} k^{\nu} \epsilon^{\mu}<br />
Now relabel the 2nd term's indices to match the first (its ok since theyre all contracted)
<br /> = 2 \sigma_{\mu \nu} k^{\mu} \epsilon^{\nu}<br />

I'm not sure what you mean by getting rid of the polarization. It stays in there for vertices/feynman rules. If you have one in the in/out state you have to do polarization sums/averaging (remember: average over initial stats, sum over final).

So in short the answer is that you're probably just thinking about the indices wrong. Its OK to have a polarization (sorta required) if you have an ingoing/outgoing boson of spin>0.

So when you get to say, a vertex times a Z propagator times another vertex you just connect the propagator to the vertices' polarization vectors.
So:

<br /> (2 \sigma_{\mu \nu} k^{\mu}) \frac{-i (g^{\nu \alpha} - k^{\nu} k^{\alpha}/M_Z^2)}{k^2-M_Z^2} (2 \sigma_{\beta \alpha} k^{\beta})<br />

Up to factors of I and -1 that I may have missed (and sign convention on incoming/outgoign momenta) and your gauge choice.

You'll notice that the polarization sums for photons/Z/vector bosons are very similar to their propagators.
 
σμvFμvμv(∂μAv-∂vAμ)
μvμAvμAv(interchanging indices in second term)
=2σμvμAv
now to get vertex factor,substitute plane wave form and take out the factors already taken care by normalization and external lines.it is done for iL(LAGRANGIAN multiplied by i) so write the lagrangian and do like above you will get something like
-iσμvkv. Notice I don't differentiate between subscript and superscript.it is unnecessary for flat space.
edit:there should not be any polarization associated with it.
 

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