Virtual Particles: How can they be responsible for attractive forces?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of virtual particles and their role in explaining attractive forces within the framework of quantum physics. Participants explore the implications of virtual particles in quantum mechanics, their mathematical representation, and the challenges of explaining these concepts in layman's terms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express a desire for a layman's explanation of quantum physics and virtual particles, indicating the complexity of the topic.
  • One participant references the Casimir effect as a related phenomenon but suggests that layman's terms are insufficient for understanding the underlying principles.
  • Another participant argues against the existence of virtual particles, stating that Coulomb and magnetic forces are responsible for interactions in quantum mechanics, and describes virtual particles as mathematical constructs rather than physical entities.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of virtual particles, with one participant suggesting they do not represent "what really happens" during interactions and emphasizing their role in calculations rather than physical reality.
  • Another participant points out that while virtual particles appear in mathematical expansions, their existence is not universally accepted, leading to differing views on their significance in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence and interpretation of virtual particles. There are competing views on whether they are meaningful physical entities or merely useful mathematical tools.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the difficulty of explaining complex quantum concepts and the varying interpretations of virtual particles, which depend on mathematical formulations and theoretical perspectives.

peron
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I don't really understand quantum physics, but I would really like to know because I'm going to study it next year. Can someone explain it to me in laymens terms, thanks.
 
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Look http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html"
 
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peron said:
I don't really understand quantum physics, but I would really like to know because I'm going to study it next year. Can someone explain it to me in laymens terms, thanks.

It's easy. In QM instead of Newton equations for ri(t) you write a wave (Schroedinger) equation for Ψ(ri,t).

Wave equations have proper frequencies (and thus, proper solutions). QM classifies them and calculates possible transitions from one solution to another.

In addition, there may be superpositions of proper solutions in which no certain frequency exists but everything evolves.

No virtual particles exist. In fact, it is the usual Coulomb and magnetic forces that attract/repell (or better, make interact) de Broglie waves in QM.

EDIT:
They say virtual particles are propagators, so they are not particles but solutions of equations with singular sources (Green's functions). The simplest such an equation is ∆φ(r) = δ(r). Its solution is just a Coulomb potential 1/r. So, instead of speaking of "virtual particles" I speak of electrostatic and magnetic interactions of charges and currents involved.
 
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peron said:
Can someone explain it to me in laymens terms, thanks.
Unfortunately no. It's pretty difficult actually, and it's certainly not explained by wave mechanics (the kind of quantum mechanics that you will study in your first QM class). If you want to see an explanation even though you won't understand it, you can look inside https://www.amazon.com/dp/0691010196/?tag=pfamazon01-20 at Amazon. Search for the word "repel", and choose the link that takes you to page 30.

I should also add that there's no reason to think of virtual particles as describing what "really happens" during an interaction. That's certainly not the most popular view around here. This is an answer I wrote to the question "What experiments have verified that virtual particles exist?":
Fredrik said:
I could answer this with "none of them" as well as "all of them". Virtual particles show up in the mathematics when you expand a certain function in a series and consider each term separately. To say that virtual particles "exist" is equivalent to saying that the individual terms of that series describe what's "really happening", while the sum doesn't. I don't think there's any justification for that. Hence "none of them" is a reasonable answer to your question. However, they are a part of a method to calculate the probabilities of each possible result of any experiment, and these methods work extremely well. Every experiment that involves quantum mechanics in any way is evidence of that. Even the existence of stable atoms is evidence of that. Hence "all of them" is also a reasonable answer to your question.

Personally, I don't think of virtual particles as a description of what's really happening. I think of them as a part of the easiest way to do calculations.
 
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