Waiting for a Job Offer - Should I Accept Less Due to Age?

  • #26
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What exactly would the lawsuit be for?
 
  • #27
DaveC426913
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What exactly would the lawsuit be for?
Breach of confidentiality. I'd bet money an employer is forbidden to share details between applicants.
 
  • #28
DoggerDan
You're right DaveC: It would be a breach. However, if it's the same employer of the current and potentially new employee, he would naturally have the previous one's salary info. Am I missing something in the story?

Regardless, that's all well and good and utterly hypothetical, so perhaps it's best if we stick with the facts instead of creating hypothetical hurdles which do not actually exist.

In that vein, I'm with you, FGS. One technique is to ascertain an absolute min and max realistic range, the give the middle half to them and put the question to them:

Absolute Minimum: $30,000
Lower Middle: $50,000
Upper Middle: $70,000
Realistic Maximum: $90,000

When they ask you about your salary expectations, tell them "I think somewhere between $50k and $70k is appropriate, depending on the demands on my services to you. What do you think is a good figure within that range?" If they counter at $55, counter at a mirrored upper point $65. On the other hand, if you know for certain you're a hot item, counter with a competitive upper point of $67.5.

Just being able to intelligently and confidently dicker the salary only further indicates to them you've got the savvy they desire in an employee.

Good luck! Please keep us posted.
 
  • #29
FlexGunship
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Nah. In my experience, a job interview is as much an opportunity for an employer to impress the interviewee with their org as it is vice versa. They want to tell you about their people and who they're hiring.
Doesn't this seem wrong/odd to you?
Well, this was during our one-on-one. He was explaining his history with the company and the problems they've had finding high-value personnel. Specifically, the job I applied for was originally supposed to be VP of Engineering (or so I gathered; he danced around it a bit), and the president was telling me about the various people be pursued for the job who ultimately declined (mostly because of the rocky economic climate, people hold on to the jobs they have now). Then he also told me a bit about his attempts to hold interviews to fill the spot, but their recruiter was really just pulling in the wrong folks.

Finally, they changed the position to something more mundane and set their sights lower and that's the position I had been interviewing for.
 
  • #30
FlexGunship
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In that vein, I'm with you, FGS. One technique is to ascertain an absolute min and max realistic range, the give the middle half to them and put the question to them:

Absolute Minimum: $30,000
Lower Middle: $50,000
Upper Middle: $70,000
Realistic Maximum: $90,000

When they ask you about your salary expectations, tell them "I think somewhere between $50k and $70k is appropriate, depending on the demands on my services to you. What do you think is a good figure within that range?" If they counter at $55, counter at a mirrored upper point $65. On the other hand, if you know for certain you're a hot item, counter with a competitive upper point of $67.5.

Just being able to intelligently and confidently dicker the salary only further indicates to them you've got the savvy they desire in an employee.

Good luck! Please keep us posted.
Well, the problem is that I'm not 100% sure what I'm interviewing for. They keep asking me questions: "would you do this?" "would you go here?" "how would you handle this?" "we recently did this, and this happened; what went wrong?" Et cetera.

If I were only dealing with the company directly, then I'd feel like I was on firm footing and I'd be willing to venture a guess at where this is going. However, the gosh-danged recruiter has been a complete nuisance.

After my second interview (which I discussed above), the recruiter calls me (not having talked to the company) and asked me how things are going. I told him I'm pretty things are going great.

He asked me things like: "did you ask for the job?" And I said: "Well, I think this position is evolving, I'm not sure it's appropriate at this point. I wouldn't know what job to ask for."

And: "Are we still good with a salary range of $XX,XXX and $YY,YYY?" (When it was just a regional sales position, I caved and gave him my expectations, but it's been a long time since it's been that simple). So I said: "No, of course not. Have you spoken with [the company] recently? I think you need to talk to them first."

And: "Well, look [Flex], they're interviewing a lot of people for this position, you're not the only one they're looking at."

I know he only makes a commission if I take the job, so I can't tell if he's trying to crush my confidence or what? But it's surely the most obnoxious part of this process. I come out of [the company's] offices, and I feel like a million bucks. I chit-chat with the HR girl, stop by the national sales manager's office to see what he's got cooking, and say good bye to the receptionist on the way out. Then I talk to the recruiter and it's like I'm struggling to get a job bagging groceries.
 
  • #31
S_Happens
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Don't worry about the recruiter. There are clueless people that exist in the middle that you have to deal with sometimes. Obviously the company people you are talking to are much more important/indicative.

I've been interviewing with a lot of companies these past two months for summer internships, and it's a mix of drooling over my resume/fantastic interviews, and talking with people who treat you like you've never had a job in your life. Some people have no business doing the interviewing/hiring and some are just completely clueless in general. It's very frustrating knowing you have had some great contacts within a company, potentially the top candidate with lots of relevant experience, but then walk out of an interview having no idea where you stand.

The first of the offers came in yesterday, and I expect more.

Everything you're saying about your discussions sounds good to me.
 
  • #32
FlexGunship
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For the same position? Unless they already work there, nothing should be shared about someone that doesn't work for them, IMO.

Perhaps it's because I worked for a Fortune 50 company, HR would not permit such a thing in an interview with a potential employee. Confidentiality and professionalism was essential.
Oh, and to clarify, no one mentioned ANY names.
 
  • #33
Evo
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So it seems like they are trying to develop a new position and as such don't have a job description or pay range? What about the original job? Couldn't you take that and then when you get familiar with how things work within that company, be given the new position? By then they should have an idea of what the job is.

I cannot tell you how many times my job completely changed within the same company. Of course they sent me to school each time to learn the "new stuff", it's actually what I liked so much about working for a bleeding edge company, no way you can get stuck in a boring job.
 
  • #34
FlexGunship
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So it seems like they are trying to develop a new position and as such don't have a job description or pay range? What about the original job? Couldn't you take that and then when you get familiar with how things work within that company, be given the new position? By then they should have an idea of what the job is.

I cannot tell you how many times my job completely changed within the same company. Of course they sent me to school each time to learn the "new stuff", it's actually what I liked so much about working for a bleeding edge company, no way you can get stuck in a boring job.
Well, one of the things that intrigued them is that I've taken on much bigger projects than their company as a whole has. So they see some technical expertise and guidance that I might be able to bring to the company. That's why I think they're hesitant to just give me a "sales" job.

EDIT: Oooooorrrr.... none of that is true. I hate trying to guess. I'm a realist, and every time I build up an assessment of the situation, I have to knock myself back to reality.
 
  • #35
DaveC426913
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Well, one of the things that intrigued them is that I've taken on much bigger projects than their company as a whole has.
Sounds to me like they are looking to you for guidance and leadership.

Why don't you take the bull by the horns? Tell them what they need, how you can fulfill it, and what paltry sum you'll charge them to take their company to the next level? It's not a salary; it's an investment with an ROI!
 
  • #36
FlexGunship
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Sounds to me like they are looking to you for guidance and leadership.

Why don't you take the bull by the horns? Tell them what they need, how you can fulfill it, and what paltry sum you'll charge them to take their company to the next level? It's not a salary; it's an investment with an ROI!
Well, I kind of did. After interviews, I send an e-mail thanking each person in attendance for their time and include something a little personal ("hope that thing with such-and-such works out for you").

When I wrote to the president I included a note that said something along the lines of:

[President],

[The recruiter] keeps trying to get me to give him a salary figure. I've tried to explain to him that things seem to be evolving in new directions. Is the job title still going to be "regional sales manager?" [Recruiter] thinks so, but I've gotten a slightly different impression, especially after our one-on-one yesterday.

Just to be clear, I'm willing to take on as much responsibility as you care to entrust to me. I'm willing to make [company] my company and its success my job. I have exactly what you're looking for. I have a few ideas for new applications of your equipment, and I'd love to brainstorm with you engineers. I have this incredible gut feeling that you've got something a lot of people are looking for and we just need to find a way to get them connected with [company] and get them educated.

There are two ways to be heard in a conversation, [president]: you can speak the loudest, or you can have the most interesting things to say.

[Company] has some very interesting things to say.

Hope to hear from you soon,
[Flex]
 
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  • #37
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Why don't you take the bull by the horns? Tell them what they need, how you can fulfill it, and what paltry sum you'll charge them to take their company to the next level? It's not a salary; it's an investment with an ROI!
In a nutshell I agree. From what you've written on this thread they are definitely interested in you, forget what the recruiter says. They want you, and they want you for as little as possible. You've apparently exceeded their expectations and I doubt that they want to see you go.
 
  • #38
DaveC426913
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Yeah Flex, it sure does seem like the ball is in your court, and that this is an opportunity handed to you on a plate to impress them with your value (both kinds).
 
  • #39
FlexGunship
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Still nothing! I'm starting to think I really biffed the second interview or something.

EDIT: Or maybe he found this thread, and then searched for other posts by me and discovered my dark side...
 
  • #40
1,033
1
Still nothing! I'm starting to think I really biffed the second interview or something.

EDIT: Or maybe he found this thread, and then searched for other posts by me and discovered my dark side...
In the second interview did you feel confident enough to refer to yourself as FlexGunship?
 
  • #41
FlexGunship
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In the second interview did you feel confident enough to refer to yourself as FlexGunship?
Oh, sure. I also kicked over a garbage can and asked if he was "ready to rock."

As it turns out, he was not.

(Side note, since I kind of ctrl-c'd and ctrl-v'd my letter to him into this thread, a simple search would've revealed this thread. Google is a wonderful and mysterious thing.)

Got a brief e-mail response. The role has been broadened to either "Key Accounts Manager" or "National Sales Engineer." I was hoping for CEO, but... oh well... The offer hasn't come yet (if there is one), he simply said they'd be in touch "shortly." I'm hoping for at least $11.50/hr plus free snacks from the vending machine.

EDIT: I noticed, suspiciously, that both titles don't exist in the Salary.com database. Oh grumble.

DOUBLE EDIT: Seriously, though, I hope it comes soon, there's this project I've been working on which has got me really frustrated and I don't want to keep working on it. Essentially I'm trying to find the least common denominator of 1/2 and 1/3 whose denominator is expressible as 2N where N is an integer.

TRIPLE EDIT: That double edit was kind of a joke, actually. I wouldn't leave a job to avoid a project. I would, however, leave a job to avoid a co-worker.
 
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  • #42
FlexGunship
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UPDATE:

So, I talked to one of my references and he indicated (in his words) that they were "high on me." And he was fairly certain that I would be getting an offer from them.

Well, it's been two and a half days. I'm used to getting an offer immediately, how long have people had to wait?
 
  • #43
Evo
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UPDATE:

So, I talked to one of my references and he indicated (in his words) that they were "high on me." And he was fairly certain that I would be getting an offer from them.

Well, it's been two and a half days. I'm used to getting an offer immediately, how long have people had to wait?
Always gotten the job during the first interview, followed up by a formal written offer letter.

It could be that they don't know what to offer you and that's the delay.
 
  • #44
FlexGunship
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Always gotten the job during the first interview, followed up by a formal written offer letter.

It could be that they don't know what to offer you and that's the delay.
Maybe. They did change the position for me so maybe they were less prepared.
 
  • #45
1,033
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Maybe. They did change the position for me so maybe they were less prepared.
sounds like you're getting the job. I wouldn't worry too much.
 
  • #46
FlexGunship
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sounds like you're getting the job. I wouldn't worry too much.
Or maybe they interviewed someone after me!!

Or maybe they decided they couldn't afford a new employee!!

Or maybe the Kraken got them!
 
  • #47
1,033
1
Or maybe they interviewed someone after me!!

Or maybe they decided they couldn't afford a new employee!!

Or maybe the Kraken got them!
You're right, I was being blindly comforting. You probably won't get the job. :tongue:
 
  • #48
Evo
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You're right, I was being blindly comforting. You probably won't get the job. :tongue:
:tongue2:
 
  • #49
FlexGunship
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They decided not to make an offer citing, of course, the economy.
 
  • #50
1,033
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They decided not to make an offer citing, of course, the economy.
Get outta here. I'm sorry to hear the flex :frown:
 

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