Wall to wall airfoil in a wind tunnel

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of downwash produced by a wall-to-wall airfoil in a wind tunnel. Participants explore the conditions under which downwash occurs, particularly focusing on the dimensions of the wind tunnel and the airfoil, as well as the implications of having walls in a closed test section.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the presence of a ceiling and floor in the wind tunnel significantly affects the amount of downwash produced by the airfoil, with smaller tunnels producing less downwash compared to larger ones.
  • Others argue that in a wall-to-wall configuration, the airfoil's wingspan matches the wind tunnel width, preventing wingtip vortices and complicating the downwash dynamics.
  • One participant raises a question about how downwash can occur in a fully closed wind tunnel, given that the walls would inhibit the necessary air circulation for downwash to happen.
  • Another participant notes that for downwash to occur in a tall wind tunnel, part of the airflow must be diverted downwards, which could create a pressure differential, but the specifics of this phenomenon remain unclear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for downwash to occur in a wall-to-wall airfoil setup. There is no consensus on how the wall configuration interacts with airflow dynamics, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions about airflow behavior in confined spaces, the dependence on wind tunnel dimensions, and the lack of empirical evidence in the form of videos demonstrating the described phenomena.

John Mcrain
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Does wall to wall airfoil produce downwash in wind tunnel ?
 
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Depends if the wind tunnel has a ceiling and a floor, and if it does, how close to the ceiling and floor are to each other. If the wind tunnel is vertically "short", only a tiny amount of downwash occurs as air flows across the wing. For example, the amount of downwash over an airfoil with a 1 foot chord in a 1 foot tall wind tunnel will be tiny, while the amount downwash from that same air foil with a 1 foot chord in a 20 foot tall wind tunnel will be significant.
 
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rcgldr said:
Depends if the wind tunnel has a ceiling and a floor, and if it does, how close to the ceiling and floor are to each other. If the wind tunnel is vertically "short", only a tiny amount of downwash occurs as air flows across the wing. For example, the amount of downwash over an airfoil with a 1 foot chord in a 1 foot tall wind tunnel will be tiny, while the amount downwash from that same air foil with a 1 foot chord in a 20 foot tall wind tunnel will be significant.
Wall to wall airfoil has "wingspan" same as wind tunnel width, high pressure can't leak to low pressure at tips.No wingtip vortices.
In wall to wall airfoil in closed test section downward movement of air will create a void above it(walls/vacuum stop this action), and the air below has to make place for that downward moving air,but again walls stop this action.
How then this is possible in fully closed wind tunnel even test section is very big/tall compare to airfoil?
Upper(ceiling) and lower(floor) walls don't allow that air circulation which downwash requier.
downwash .jpg.png
You say that downwash(like this on picture below) is possible in tall wind tunnel for wall to wall airfoil.
* to make that possible ,air behind center of airfoil must go down and air at side walls must go up,this air circulation must produce two roll-up vortices,Why I don't see described air DOWNWARD MOVEMENT in any wall to wall airfoil wind tunnel video?
cyr0c.jpg
downwash behind wing video:
https://fyfluiddynamics.com/2014/04/Newtons-third-law-says-that-forces-come-in-equal/
 
Last edited:
John Mcrain said:
Wall to wall airfoil has "wingspan" same as wind tunnel width, high pressure can't leak to low pressure at tips.No wingtip vortices.
In wall to wall airfoil in closed test section downward movement of air will create a void above it(walls/vacuum stop this action), and the air below has to make place for that downward moving air,but again walls stop this action. How then this is possible in fully closed wind tunnel even test section is very big/tall compare to airfoil?
Upper(ceiling) and lower(floor) walls don't allow that air circulation which downwash requires.
A fresh stream of air is flowing into the wind tunnel. For a tall wind tunnel, in order for a pressure differential to be created, part of that air flow has to be diverted downwards, it will eventually recover, but there will be downwash in the vicinity of the wing.
 

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