Weight difference between an empty and a full memory stick

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether there is a weight difference between an empty memory stick and one that contains data. Participants explore the implications of information storage on mass and energy, considering both theoretical and practical aspects of memory technology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the weight of a memory stick changes based on the data it contains, suggesting that the energy associated with stored information could influence mass.
  • Others propose that the difference in weight may depend on the specific patterns of bits stored (e.g., all 0s vs. all 1s) and whether these patterns affect energy storage.
  • A participant mentions that information's meaning is subjective and may not have a physical weight, while also noting that energy changes associated with information could lead to mass changes.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between entropy and information, with some arguing that identical bits carry zero information and thus may not affect mass.
  • One participant presents a rough measurement suggesting a minuscule weight difference when comparing a memory stick with music files to an empty one, although they express uncertainty about the accuracy of their measurement.
  • Several participants seek clarification on how to define and quantify information in relation to mass, raising questions about the nature of bits and their contribution to overall information content.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the relationship between information, energy, and mass, with no clear consensus reached. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining "information" and its implications for mass, noting that assumptions about energy differences and entropy are critical to the discussion. There are unresolved questions regarding measurement accuracy and the theoretical underpinnings of the claims made.

  • #121
uart said:
Initially I made a guestimate based on typical structure of modern flash memory of about 10^3 electrons per floating gate (that is, per bit). Stupidly I took the mass increase to be the mass of these electrons (approx 10^(-27) kg per bit). That's nonsense of course, as each cell remains overall charge neutral and the electrons are just redistributed from one plate of the capacitor to the other.

Looking at it again I'll say approx n\, q_e\, V\, /\,(4\,c^2) kg per bit. So based on n approx 10^3 electrons per bit and assuming V is a few volts, I get about 10^(-33) kg per bit as a serious guestimate for modern flash memory.
I speculate you were more on the right tract in the first paragraph. When we say neutral, yes that means that at the macro scale of the memory stick the charge will be 'neutral', but not necessarily to every last −1.602×10−19 Coulomb (e), not over the many moles of electrons in question here. It could be that some state of the stick could well carry a net charge of a few e. Normally the mass of a few electrons would be insignificant, but compared to the minuscule E/c^2 mass grasped at in the second paragraph, the rest mass of even a few electrons is king.
 
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  • #122
Didn't have time to read all 8 pages, hope this isn't redundant. Usually the "1's" are stored as charged capacitors, whereas the "0's" are stored as uncharged capacitors. A charged capacitor is going to have energy = 1/2*C*V^2, therefore mass = E/c^2.
 

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